Poll Question

[shoeless]

I was wondering what program are you using and do you solely go by the readouts to make your wagering decisions.The reason I was asking is because during the Pirco days the teachers encouraged you to look at other factors and later on Doc seemed to be steering away from it.


I use Energy and will use other means to base my decisions on,such as class,trainers etc. Jeff

[shoeless]

Yesterday by over anaylizing the form and not just go by the readouts cost me.I had a 46.00 winner in the 1st at Bel and a 27.00 winner in the 7th at Philly both on the turf.I didnt collect on either of them.Jeff

[RAMON201]

Validator is my main program. After entering the pacelines and running it thru the Validator I look at the readouts and I will go over the PPs to make sure it makes sense to me. I pay little or no attention to the trainer, jockey, breeding , weight carried, etc. My main thing is are my contenders the real deal and can they perform with todays field. My wagering is sometimes straight win,place and other times exacta. I have had the tri on some occasions but more often than not didnt bet it. You can blow a lot of money trying to hit the tri. Yes sometimes I have spent way to much time looking at a race and got off a horse that I was going to bet only to lose the race. The other day I had a horse that was right on top in the bl-bl had a balance of 4 , looked to be in my eyes unbeatable and did not bet it because the morning line was 9/5. Needless to say this horse won and the public let him go off at 7-1. Whats really frustrating is to have a horse at 20-1 ML and have the public for some reason bet him down to 5/2 or less and not bet him because now he's not the value you thought and the horse wins. At times it seems that everything you do is wrong. When I get in a funk I'll take a break and play on paper , go over the races I missed to see if I missed something. Sometimes horses win races and there is no way you would have had this horse. The long and short of it is to work the Methodology the winners will come. In my mind the research has been done and theres no need on my part to try to reinvent it. What worked yesterday will work tomorrow. We have the advantage over the public because they are still using traditional handicapping methods , buying tip sheets , playing the favorite , playing a horse because they like his name , etc. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

[kiltman]

RAMON you said it all just as it plays out day in and day out. I use SPEC but its all the same. Dont look at jockeys, trainers. weight. It is just the readouts and what is getting the winners using the readouts that are working at your track.

[shoeless]

Thanks guys for you response so far it's 100%Readouts-2 Readouts+other info-1.Hopefully others will respond as well.Jeff

[Houndog]

Jeff, as you know Energy is the program I have been using. Lately I have been using Aodds for contender and pacline selection than saving them in the Energy format. I have been trying to get the contenders down to 4-6 horses.

If I can't do this then I probably don't have a good handle on the race. If you put too many horses in Energy the readouts will be all over the place. Why make it hard on yourself as you can always move on to another race and track without having to deal with so many unknowns. With Energy just as with the other Sartin programs the read-outs and how you interpret them is the most important part.

I will on occasion look at trainer records. I am not looking for good trainers, but looking at trainers with records such as 2/50, 0/40, etc. I have to get good odds on horses trained by these types regardless what the readouts look like. I need to make the risk I am taking by betting these worthwhile.

[Rverge]

shoe
i echo ramons post. happens to me. i have gone back to the All-in-one v5 software along with spec. going to use it and compare SR and TR. bought the downloads from HDW. will use the trainer/jock for layoffs and Front bandages, 1st-2nd lasix it has a roi for these things. i know TM has this to. v5 breaks it out better for me. also i use only the read out. don't use the form but do use TM's pp's.
john

[shoeless]

I think that's interesting how people are using other software with the Sartin Programs.I would like to make that the 2nd part of the poll Do you use other software with the Sartin Program?I am using A ODDS gold as well with Energy,I really am impressed with A ODDS Gold as I have said before.Jeff

[Houndog]

I think that's interesting how people are using other software with the Sartin Programs.I would like to make that the 2nd part of the poll Do you use other software with the Sartin Program?I am using A ODDS gold as well with Energy,I really am impressed with A ODDS Gold as I have said before.Jeff

Jeff, whatever program or combination of programs that gets you to the winner's circle is all that counts. Sounds like you have come across a procedure that works for you. Here is to your continued success.

NO RULES JUST RIGHT as they say.

[shoeless]

Houndog,Well I had ALOT OF HELP getting there yourself,Richie and Bill included in that group.Also a BIG THANKS to Gary who took the time to meet up with Pino and myself a few weeks back.Now if I just listen to your guys advice and trust the readouts I would be fine.Jeff

[dugoutgold]

hey Shoe, ive changed how i look at readouts etc over the years here. These days I look for the top 5 lowest odds horses and take it from there. Yes i miss a huge payoff once in a while but I just care about steady profit. Boreing but I have somewhat of a traders background here and use the old addage, keep your losses low! Meaning this I after getting the lowest 5/6 contenders then ill use my readouts. Also with the 2 horse dutch I often spilt the bets 60/40 if the lowodds horse looks that good and my second pick is around 4 to 1 or better. As you might guess i pass alot of races these days as I want the risk/reward ratio to be worth the bet. Also i do do keep simple models, On Val its the V/DC screen to look at trends. On spec which even though i tested many versions for Guy I was never constant I looked for the mug. per1 and 2 and the BBL.

[Rxlawyer]

Jeff:

I use Aodds Gold with Energy II. I use Aodds for projecting the time, selecting pacelines and contender selection. Then I send the data to Energy II. Then I use Energy II to make eliminations. Then I use Energy II to make my final decision which is based entirely on the various screens. Once in awhile I only get one or two contenders so I do not need to use Energy II.

Gary

[JoeLong]

Jeff:

I use Aodds Gold with Energy II. I use Aodds for projecting the time, selecting pacelines and contender selection. Then I send the data to Energy II. Then I use Energy II to make eliminations. Then I use Energy II to make my final decision which is based entirely on the various screens. Once in awhile I only get one or two contenders so I do not need to use Energy II.

Gary

I am using Phase V Energy, I've never heard of Energy II, please explain. Thanks.

[Rxlawyer]

Dear Joe:

Energy II came out after Energy V. Worked very well with Aodds Gold 98. Very similar to Energy V with some improvements and some adjustments. I love the original Energy, but it is too hard to use with newer computers. Here is a screen shot.

Gary

[JoeLong]

Was this an upgrade product to the original Energy program, or was it marketed as a new program? I lost touch with the methodology after KGen, and don't remember it being around then.

Energy II does not seem to be posted on the website in the old programs section, know where one may obtain a copy?

[Rxlawyer]

Joe:

My best recollection is that the program was marketed as an upgrade of Energy! I can not remember, but I think it came out after KGEN. You might ask Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw if he has a copy.

Gary

[JoeLong]

Joe:

My best recollection is that the program was marketed as an upgrade of Energy! I can not remember, but I think it came out after KGEN. You might ask Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw if he has a copy.

Gary

Someone shared a copy with me today, I see little difference with the main screens, what have you found as an improvement?

Thanks - JoeLong

[Rxlawyer]

Dear Joe:

The only improvement that I really use is the combination with Aodds Gold 98 and the ease of sending data from Aodds Gold 98 to Energy II! Some of the new screens are not part of my routine.

Gary

[JoeLong]

Dear Joe:

The only improvement that I really use is the combination with Aodds Gold 98 and the ease of sending data from Aodds Gold 98 to Energy II! Some of the new screens are not part of my routine.

Gary

Hi Gary,

That is a nice feature not having to confirm the paceline selection prior to creating an Energy file. Based on your post, can I make the assumption that in most circumstances you allow Aodds to automatically select both contenders and pacelines and analysis is performed by Energy?

Let me see if I understand the process:

1). Aodds Silver lacks the handicapping screens of Gold but has the ability to pick contenders & pacelines, so it selections must be sent to another program like Energy for handicapping.

2). The problem I see with Gold is that it has a MegaChex screen and a final handicapping screen that may or may not agree with Energy's readouts how do you handle that problem?

How strong is Aodds at handicapping, and is outputting to Energy even required once you are running Gold? Can you share your method for using Aodds Gold?

Thanks - JoeLong

[Rxlawyer]

Dear Joe:

It has been so long since I used Aodds Silver that I do not remember much about it.

I use Aodds Gold 98 strictly as a contender selection tool. I usually start at the past performances. I look at the projected times to see if I agree with them. I ususally do, but not always. If not then I change the projected fraction(s) I do not agree with. Then I select my own pacelines. I usually agree with the program about 90% of the time.
I rarely use Megachex. However, I do use the Final Handicapping screen to give another view of strengths and weaknesses of various horses. I mark or "scratch" non-contenders where I find them in Aodds Gold 98. Then I send the data file to Energy II.
I never compared the Energy II screens to the Final Handicapping screen in Aodds Gold 98 so I didn't know there was a problem. I still don't see it as a problem. I see it as two ways of looking at data since the screens measure different characteristics.
Aodds Gold 98 is a very strong handicapping tool. I find that I get many races down to one, two or three contenders in Aodds Gold 98. If so, I usually do not send the data file to Energy II because I can usually complete my decision-making by visually completeing the matchup process using the various screens in Aodds. Sometimes, when I can't make up my mind then I do send the remaining horses to Energy II. I ONLY send true contenders to Energy II. When I have four or more contenders left in a race then I definitely send the data to Energy II to complete my decision-making process.

Gary

[Houndog]

JoeB, I think you are running Aodds Gold Dos version 5.5 if I am correct. Everything Gary has said about using the projected paceline, and using the program to get contenders I totally agree with. Since Gary uses the program for contenders and paceline selections to be put in Energy when he needs to I thought I would focus more on the Superchex and Megachex screens.

Joe, I would try as an exercise is to look at the pacelines that Aodds Gold selects with Superchex Off and then compare them to the lines Aodds Gold selects with Superchex On. I would do this from another screen rather then the Superchex Screen. Many times some of the pacelines Aodds selects will change with Superchex on. I think this is important so I will quote from the manual <NOTE> If you have not turned on Superchex from the Main Screen before you come to this Screen Superchex will use the Superchex pacelines automatically, even though it says SuperChex-Off. However, when you leave this screen Aodds Gold will re-set the paceline selection to the regular pacelines. If you do turn Superchex on then the pacelines will not be re-set after you leave. <NOTE>

Megachex uses it's own paceline selection independent of anything else in the program. Even if you "mark" your own pacelines Megachex may or may not use it. The way to see what line Megachex selects is to hit L from the Megachex screen, and see what line it selects. This can also differ with Superchex-On or Off. I have seen Megachex go all the way back to the oldest line in the PP's if it likes it. You need to do this from the Megachex screen because when you leave this screen Aodds will re-set the lines to whatever they were when you entered the Megachex screen. This will depend if Superchex is on or off.

JoeB, I am assuming you don't have the manual so that's why I'm quoting here. The manual also recommends turning Superchex on only in NON-Maiden races. Superchex applies very strict guidelines to the horses. In Maiden races most horses will not meet these guidelines.

The manual goes on to say that these screens are most powerful when used properly. Which means entering these screens (Especially Megachex) with only real contenders. Hope some of this helps.