Val2006 vs Val3c at Evd

[RichieP]

I have gotten 4 PM's from members asking bout the differences in the 2 programs. So I will post up races where I can use 7.5 or less Blf. that IS the instructions on program use.

I will post races where the horses with large beaten lenghts do NOT have speed ratings that threaten the "proper contenders".

I will hide to the top 5 total energy and line score horses.


I am NOT gonna "handicap" the races. instead just use a simple application style of line selection. there might only be a couple races a night that fit and are easy for me to work.

I will post the result for each race shown

I'll do this when it doesn't interfere with my other work.

4/4
Race 1 on Val 2006

[RichieP]

Race 1 on Val3c

[RichieP]

Race 4 on Val2006

[RichieP]

Race 4 on Val3c

[RichieP]

Race 5 on val2006

[RichieP]

Race 5 on Val3c

[RichieP]

I will NOT be able to update after scratches are known. Sorry
Richie:)

[tompkins]

What, without going into too much detail, has changed between the old Trackmaster-tainted Val 3 and this new version? Never understood that arbitrary 7.5 thing which has been proven wrong over and over.

[socantra]

What, without going into too much detail, has changed between the old Trackmaster-tainted Val 3 and this new version? Never understood that arbitrary 7.5 thing which has been proven wrong over and over.

With apologies to Ted (for all the trouble he went too), the simple answer ais that Val2006 set the variant and adjustments back to half value so they didn't run away with you.

The 7.5 length reccomendation was a product of the variable beaten lengths used in Validator. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but back in the early energy days the velocity version of Engen used the across the board value of 10 feet for a beaten length, The Energy version of Engen used much less in the first and final fraction. As I remember, the final fraction used a value of 4 feet.at 6 furlongs. Validator's numbers were different but the principal was the same.

If you don't limit the beaten lengths, you can move up some herses that have no business being there. You can work around it but you have to pay attention to what you are doing. The 7.5 length warning was somewhat arbitrary, but it kept a lot of people from betting on some really slow horses.

Dick...

[RichieP]

race 1

Evangeline Downs - Wednesday, April 4th, 2007
Conditions: Allowance, $21,000, Open 3 yo, 5F, Dirt.
Off Time: 6:21 Start: 5 went. Good for all. Won driving. Track: Fast Weather: Clear 65o
Pedigree: 5 - Sequoia King, Chestnut Colt, 3, by Forestry - Potential Pleasure by Unbridled
Fractions: :224, :461, :582 (:22.89, :46.32, :58.53)


# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
5 Sequoia King Terry Dominic M. 118 5.20 3.20 2.20
2 Heza Hot Cat Patin Billy Charles 118 7.40 3.00
3 Unbridledsensation St. Julien Marlon 119 2.20


Wager Type Payoff Winning Numbers Pool
$2 Exacta $42.00 5-2 $18,371
$2 Quinella $26.00 2-5

[RichieP]

race 4
Evangeline Downs - Wednesday, April 4th, 2007
Conditions: Claiming, $7,200, Open 3 yo's & up, 6F, Dirt.
Off Time: 7:43 Start: 12 went. Good for all. Won driving. Track: Fast Weather: Clear 65o
Pedigree: 11 - Hongry, Chestnut Gelding, 4, by Esplanade Ridge - Boo Boo's Princess by Zuppardo's Prince
Fractions: :221, :464, 1:002, 1:134 (:22.39, :46.92, 1:00.44, 1:13.84)


# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
11 Hongry Bankston III Earl 117 11.40 5.00 4.20
4 Smart Trick Hernandez Colby J. 115 5.20 3.40
8 Down Set Hut Lozada Carlos 112 11.00


Wager Type Payoff Winning Numbers Pool
$2 Pick 3 $426.20 5-9-11 (3 Correct) $3,290
$2 Exacta $57.80 11

[RichieP]

race 5
Evangeline Downs - Wednesday, April 4th, 2007
Conditions: Claiming, $8,500, Open 4 yo's & up, 1M 70Y, Dirt.
Off Time: 8:09 Start: 12 went. Good for all. Won driving. Track: Fast Weather: Clear 65o
Pedigree: 12 - Trey's Mighty One, Bay Gelding, 6, by Malagra - Sensational Lady by Broad Brush
Fractions: :24, :483, 1:143, 1:414, 1:461 (:24.13, :48.66, 1:14.70, 1:41.96, 1:46.30)


# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
12 Trey's Mighty One Melancon Gerard 120 10.00 5.60 3.80
11 Mooring Sand Dupuis Todd James 120 19.40 11.80
1 P F C Ryan Bourque Curt C. 123 3.40


Wager Type Payoff Winning Numbers Pool
$2 Pick 3 $154.40 9-11-12 (3 Correct) $5,387
$2 Exacta $178.00

[RichieP]

again we are NOT capping but using application style line selection to evaluate corrolaries between the 2 when the winner shows up

race 1 - clearly to 2006
race 4 - clearly to 3C
race 5 - can call it even though a case for a slight edge to 3C can also be made

Richie

[RichieP]

race 1 on Val 2006

[RichieP]

race 1 on Val3C

[froggy]

again we are NOT capping but using application style line selection to evaluate corrolaries between the 2 when the winner shows up

race 1 - clearly to 2006
race 4 - clearly to 3C
race 5 - can call it even though a case for a slight edge to 3C can also be made

Richie,

What does this mean?

Froggy

[RichieP]

race 4 on Val2006

[RichieP]

race 4 on Val3C

[RichieP]

race 9 on Val2006

[RichieP]

race 9 on Val3C

[RichieP]

again we are NOT capping but using application style line selection to evaluate corrolaries between the 2 when the winner shows up

race 1 - clearly to 2006
race 4 - clearly to 3C
race 5 - can call it even though a case for a slight edge to 3C can also be made

Richie,

What does this mean?

Froggy

Morning Froggy,
this is a corrolary/bl/bl comparison of 2 programs.

Val3c is the version that Howard created. Then after he took ill in 2001 Trackmaster changed it's Sr and Variants due to Equibase changing it's scale. The numbers ( speed ratings) on 3C went through the roof and quite a few folks (including myself who lost 2k in the first 3 weeks after) couldn't use the software anymore. Meanwhile a long time friend who is a professional wagerer in Ohio used the same 3C after the change and his results and profit never changed. He told me forget the bigger numbers and just use the program because it still worked fine.

Then Bill spoke with Doc after last years Derby and when he read Doc the speed ratings Doc flew off the handle and told Bill to find some folks at Trackmaster who might help. Bill told Ted. Ted found them and worked together on the code to put back Validator to it's previous EXACT readouts before the changes from Equibase hit. The result of that effort is Val2006.

I am attempting to show some races and readouts from the 2 programs before races run so that folks who still have Val3c might see the comparison to Val2006. Trying to help and I have NO vested interest or "tilt" to see either program perform better. Guess that makes me unbiased which helps.

Val2006 is NOT commercially available so thats why I am posting. I have a copy as I was one of the folks Ted asked for input from when the 2006 was born.

Richie

[Ted Craven]

Val3c used a formula for applying DTV to running times and for extracting the Intertrack Variant from the TM Speed Rating and also applying it to running times - based on 1 SR or DTV point = 1/5 second. In February 2006 Equibase changed the unit of measure of DTV and SR from 1/5 to 1/10 seconds. They also changed the scale of SR values from 30 - 100 to 0 - 130.

The effect on Val3c of this change was that a) twice the DTV was being applied to running times and b) he formula for deriving the ITV was totally wacked.

As an exercise in understanding this change fully, I modified the internal formulae in Val3c in accordance with the above changes and then asked a few people to test it to see if their results seemed more in keeping with what they were experienceing with Val before the change. In some cases the difference was minimal and in some cases it was noticeable. As Dick summed up earlier, since Val traditionally used HALF the DTV, changing the denomination of units from 5th to 10th had the effect of using the FULL DTV, so the formula change for Val2006 had the effect of reverting back to Doc's intended HALF DTV. In essence, it is exactly what Val3c was before the Equibase change: nothing more, nothing less.

I'm gateful to Ellis Starr, now at Equibase and to Jim Vanderbosch at TrackMaster for listening to my questions and helping me to understand their forumlae.

We sent the write up of results to Doc Sartin and he seemed pleased that the formula had been corrected. Although I asked what if anything I should do with this Val2006 experiment, and described how I was moving forward with the corrected formulae in my new RDSS work, he declined to give any direction about Val2006, so I have taken the position that I will make it available rather as part of RDSS.

A further interesting note is that in working on this Val2006 enquiry into correctly deriving the Inter Track Variant number from the TrackMaster Speed Rating, it became clear to me that Speculator never made any use at all of the ITV value, and in my opinion, suffered from that omission. The ITV adjusts all tracks, distances and surfaces to a hypothetical norm for today's race, thus for example, making 1 turn and 2 turn mile pacelines more equal, inherently fast and inherently slow tracks more equal, turf to dirt, etc, etc. You can do without it, but arguably you can do better with it. Spec160 was released as an update to Spec150 almost solely to incorporate that missing ITV.

The ITV is still inaccurate as it is derived by a formula, not supplied as a value, and that formula may have once been accurate but is now less so. In conversation with TrackMaster, after I tabulated a few dozen ITV values for different distances, tracks, surfaces, they said (and I think with some surprise that I had these numbers at my fingertips), that they were in the ballpark though some had drifted badly over 10 years. (BTW, I must thank Dick aka 'socantra' and my friend and PnC alumnus 'Brian Wade' for their help over the past year or so in zeroing in on some of the math related to this).

I requested and for RDSS have negotiated with TrackMaster that they supply the actual current ITV values used for each paceline in a horse's Past Performance, updated annually or more frequently as track changes or inter track relationships warrant. Whether one feels these numbers are the industry best or not, or whether one thinks they are even necessary, is a separate issue, proven, IMO, entirely by (admittedly labourious) tracking one's own individual handicapping results.

I hope that answered a question about Val3 / Val2006 differences.

Ted

[froggy]

Thanks VERY VERY much guys,

Now I understand and maybe a few others do also.
Your efforts are really appreciated.
More than you know.

Froggy

[admin]

Ted , Thank you Your explaination was so clear
I hope the way you painted that word picture of the creation of Val 2006
will be some confort to everyone. As we all wait for the chance to use it as part of your RDSS program

Richie thank you to for you report. And the little overview of my
conversations with Doc. I owe Ted so much. I was given
what for me seemed like an impossible mission I am so grateful to
Ted the way things are moving along with the folks at Trackmaster
Something that I could not have done Thank you Dick and Brian
for your work

GS
Bill

[RichieP]

race 1 result

Evangeline Downs - Thursday, April 5th, 2007
Conditions: Starters Allowance, $13,000, Open 4 yo's & up, 7F, Dirt.
Off Time: 6:21 Start: 6 went. Good for all. Won driving. Track: Fast Weather: Clear 65o
Pedigree: 5 - Ww Conquistador, Dark Bay or Brown Gelding, 7, by Conquistador Cielo - Lonely Beach by Kennedy Road
Fractions: :233, :471, 1:123, 1:252 (:23.75, :47.30, 1:12.69, 1:25.43)


# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
5 Ww Conquistador Terry Dominic M. 123 3.60 3.00 2.60
1 Tour On Review Lozano, Jr. Wilfredo L. 119 3.60 2.80
4 Clinch Patin Billy Charles 119 4.00


Wager Type Payoff Winning Numbers Pool
$2 Exacta $14.80

[RichieP]

race 4 result

Evangeline Downs - Thursday, April 5th, 2007
Conditions: Claiming, $14,500, State Bred Open 3 yo's & up, 1M, Dirt.
Off Time: 7:39 Start: 10 went. Good for all. Won driving. Track: Fast Weather: Clear 65o
Pedigree: 5 - Hotlikepepper, Bay Gelding, 5, by A Corking Limerick - Regent Prospect by Fortunate Prospect
Fractions: :234, :481, 1:15, 1:432 (:23.94, :48.35, 1:15.00, 1:43.59)


# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
5 Hotlikepepper Meche Donnie J. 120 7.60 5.60 3.80
6 It's Carnival Time Bankston III Earl 116 17.80 13.00
3 Rockin Rooster Riquelme Jose 120 14.60


Wager Type Payoff Winning Numbers Pool
$2 Pick 3 $224.20 2-6-5 (3 Correct) $3,289
$2 Exacta $139.60

[RichieP]

race 9 result
Evangeline Downs - Thursday, April 5th, 2007
Conditions: Allowance Optional Claiming, $22,000, Open 3 yo's & up, 6F, Dirt.
Off Time: 9:45 Start: 7 went. Good for all. Won driving. Track: Fast Weather: Clear 65o
Pedigree: 6 - Swim Easy Two, Dark Bay or Brown Gelding, 4, by Mutakddim - Premier Question by Premiership
Fractions: :222, :461, :584, 1:114 (:22.56, :46.30, :58.88, 1:11.97)


# Horse Jockey Weight Win Place Show
6 Swim Easy Two St. Julien Marlon 120 5.40 3.60 2.40
5 Mach Gelt Dupuis Todd James 120 9.00 3.40
4 Streaking Pine Melancon Gerard 117 2.80


Wager Type Payoff Winning Numbers Pool
$2 Pick 3 $4,711.40 3-9-6 (3 Correct) $3,141
$2 Exacta $52.40

[Jonathan Steele]

This is a question I have yet to hear asked, so I will ask it myself: What do owners of Val 2 & 3C do? Throw their copies away? I mean, what's the use of telling us about the fix available in Val2006, if the non-insiders in this group can't get a copy of it? Why not make this 'patch' readily available for a nominal fee so that Val 2 & 3C owners can upgrade their programs to work 'correctly' with Trackmaster's new data?

I'm sure there are others who agree with me.

Regards,

Jon :D

[admin]

Hello Jon

Ted Craven has helped us out
Howard Sartin asked me to ask Ted to make a corrected
version of validator 2-3 and that I could provide to his clients.
Richie stepped up and helped me when I needed him as usual.
He worked out some more details with Doc
I am very happy. Ted Craven did a great job fixing
the problems caused by the changes to the data files
on 2/1/06 The program Ted made was Val2006 now its called Val4

I have been sending out copies to those who ask for it
There is no insiders group Ted made val2006 to show Doc what he had
in his plans for RDSS. Doc asked that in order to test the program
to send him races when the winner paid over $9.00
Ted asked Me and a few others to do some races to send to Doc

Doc saw the results and wrote a nice article which I posted
here about last AUg. I will look for that link

Doc's wish is that his Validator program could
be avaialbe to his clients Ted and Richie and I
got it done

Val 4 is being sent out by me "As Is" its a dos program and just a patch
No new updates wiill be made

GS
Bill
Soon to be RDSS user :)

[RichieP]

Folks getting the Val4 REALLY have to thank:

1) Bill - without him none of the process relating to Howard and his feedback would have started. This goes back to May of last year. Bill has a spot in Howard's heart and also has his ear which is a very nice combo.

2) Ted - without him and his hard work in both dealing with PRECISE coding details with trackmaster programmers and also programming the Val 4 NOBODY would have anything. That's real man.

I have nothing to do with this project. Bill and Ted have gone "above and beyond" the call here in my humble opinion.

Just one other acknowledgement is needed. This is Russ "Kiltman". Super nice guy and a major facillitator of some things that went down early on. One of the nicest and genuine good guys on the board.

take care
Richie

[socantra]

You all deserve a big round of applause for making this program available to the Validtor users out there.

One little thing. The ESP running styles are not available on the paceline screen in this version. I miss them, but I don't believe they were there in the original Validator either. The reason thay are not there is that this is the version that Ted found on Guy's computer, so its the one he had to work with. A minor problem and a small price to pay for having the program back working like it was supposed to.

Thanks to everyone,
Dick

[Houndog]

I would also like to Thank-You for supplying the "Fixed" version of Validator. I know you are in no way obligated to have done this, but I am grateful nevertheless.

[kiltman]

Richie thanks for the kind words. But the three guys who do and make all of the Sartin things alive and well is Bill, Richie and Ted. If not for them there would be no Sartin Methodology left. All I can say is thanks for all you do and have done and could not know a better group of guys. All heart All the time.
Russ

[Jonathan Steele]

Bill,

Hello my friend. This is the first I've heard about Val4. Many kudos to you, Richie, Ted, Russ, and of course, to the creative genius that started it all, Doc Sartin.

I did not mean anything negative when I said "insiders" here at the P & C messageboard. Perhaps I should have said "beta testers." Regardless, thanks for clearing things up.

Best regards,

Jon :D

p.s. Oh, yeah. and The HAT!

[ray lopez]

Many thanks to Bill,Ted and Richie for the Val 4.I am a professional bettor
now for more than eight months.I was using Val2 and Val3 until the TM
speed ratings change.I switched to Specpa and now back to my favorite
program,Val4.I just bet the top 3 on VD/C readouts.Sometimes i bet one
horse and sometimes two horses,as long as the odds are good.My win % is
only 23% but my ROI is $1.34.I just go to the sportsbook and make my bets
in the morning,and take care of other stuff.I just make flat bets.There are
so many guys here who talk about Horse Market Investing and other money
management stuff,but i don't see them turning pro.Flat betting and fixed-
percentage minimum has work really well for me,and i would probably use
a more efficient way of money management if i can sit all day at the racebook
but i like my lifestyle of just make my bets and leave.I increase my flat bets
as soon as i hit a certain profit point.I do my homework and record keeping
and modelling at night.Being a pro is a real dream come true,but it's very
tough and a real grind.I'm excited about Ted's RDSS program,but in the
meantime,Val4 is my ticket....

[froggy]

Ray,

I like what you had to say.
I feel glad inside when I read a post such as yours.
It is hard to do what you are doing and darn few people are even close to being able to do it.

The talking heads on the TV and the know it alls in the race books make me laugh.
The last time I was in a book which was about 2 months ago I had my print outs and reading Sherlock Holmes between races.
The track I was doing had most of the plays between post positions 1, 2, 3 and 5 for the first five races and then on the outside for the next four.
After four winners from the inside in the first four races I could hear all the chatter about the outside being dead. Race 5 #1 won it. In the remaining races everybody but me was pouring their money in on the inside. Meanwhile I won the next four from the 9, 10, 11 and 12.

Haven't been inside a book since and they are less than 15 minutes away.
I do it all on the computer now. Don't even have to put my shoes on now.
Besides it's 108' outside right now, no sense going out in that.

When My wagers get big enough I'll probably have to go back to a race book as I like to leave as little a paper trail as possible.

Good luck

Froggy

[ray lopez]

Thanks,Froggy.Because of the internet ban on gambling,and most legal
online racebooks in the US will not allow Nevada residents to join,I have to
bet on the racebooks here in Reno.I just bet the higher odds horses on my
top choices.If my top three picks are 2-1,5-2,and 8-1...i bet the 8-1 horse.
i have a lower win %,but i make a lot more money betting this way.I know
that there are more efficient ways of betting,but i have to take care of my
two kids,so making my bets in the morning with flat bets works just fine with
me.Val2,Val3c and Specpa have been very good to me.I'm just thankful that
Bill and Ted have given us Val4.I look forward to the new RDSS program....

[admin]

Hello Froggy and Ray

I am into my third 20 race cycle of betting off the morning line
putting my bets in way ahead of time and moving on to
either another race or better yet going and doing something else
The first two 20 race cycles were very good actually my last
one was my all time best win % and Rich figured out i had 150%roi
This third one working this way, Im about halfway done In 11
races I have 5 winners 3 of them paying double digits

I have not been hurt too bad at all, afew times the horse paid very low
but I saw the moring line and bet 60/40
most times I bet 50 percent win on one horse and split
the second bet 33% win place and show

My 20 race cycles are win bets only
The place and show bets ??? The voucher on my NJbets
account says its working very well:)

The great thing that is helping me really is
the bet it and forget it on the longer odds
horses. I don't know what it is maybe
since the race is going off much later
There is not so much self doubt

GS
Bill
Bill
.

[froggy]

Ray and Bill,

What are you guys doing up so early?
I am courious as to what type of races you are targeting and how many tracks a day do you do and how far into history to get a pace line?
Two race cards a day for me is a killer, so I like to do just one and that is at a major track with reliable morning line and not too much fluctuation in the odds. It is a hard grind.

Ray, what is Specpa?

I have been away from the methodolgy for several years and am back at it with both feet.

[admin]

Hi Froggy

Up so early???
with me people usually ask Bill have you been slept
in the last few days? LOL:)

I am basically betting one race during the day
Taking breaks on the road. I pull over and do a race on my laptob
Then send the bet in on my wireless internet connection and head
on down the road. Then when I get home I do a race
then eat dinner maybe go out or just get caught up
on the site Lately thats it because I'm busy with
adding Follow ups and audio files which is a job
too I try to do another race before I take a nap
SLEEP :rolleyes: So its taking me very long to do 20 race cycles

But hey someday soon like the boss says
Someday girl I don't know when were going to get to that place were you really want to go and we'll walk in the sun
But till then tramps like us Baby we were born to run

Bruce Sprinsteen
Born to Run

GS
Bill

[ray lopez]

Froggy,Specpa was one of the later Speculator versions by Guy...

[ray lopez]

Thanks,Bill.I did many 20 race cycles in late 2005,until i found what my
strengths and weaknesses were.If my top horse is no.1 in the Val3c readouts,
and he's 2-1 on the morning line,i had a hard time of convincing myself to bet
the second top horse going off at 6-1 or the third pick horse going off at 8-1.
It took me a long time to convince myself that any of those top 3 or 4 horses
can win on any day...It was always TOP CHOICE,TOP CHOICE,TOP CHOICE...
i thought that our numbers were always right...WRONG !!!...Now,i always
stay away from the favorite if he's vulnerable...i repeat,only when he's
vulnerable,i bet the higher odds horses which have a legit shot to win.If the
favorite is really very strong on all angles,i just PASS...remember,there's
always another race...always another day...

[admin]

Hello Ray
I also had that problem top 2
best 2 out of the top 3 ????
what about tier 4 ??? everytime they won it was fustrating

I love what you say about ANYone of the top 3 can win
Now that is the heart of waggercapping

I would love to describe the many variations of what I call
the binder method

One of my best patterns is when the favorite is in tier 3 or 4
then I run to the window and bet the better of the top 2
I look real close at the tier 4 horse and match it against the lesser
of the other top 2 horse

i have been hitting some nice tier 4 horses when this pattern happens

If the favorite is one of the Top 2 horses I will bet it and split my bet
enough that I can make money
I don't hide the favorite anymore
I always bet two horse I persionally need to win as many races
as I can A 3 race losing streak betting two horses eats up
to much of my voucher and I get discourage _ Thats me I
need to deal with myself
This is a thing that I have to deal with
I only do what I do because I need to wager in a way that
works for me I feel that finding a pattern that works best for each person is a big help

GS
Bill

[ray lopez]

You're right,Bill.We have to find which things work for us and which don't.
The Val2 to Val4 ,Spec and the upcoming RDSS are just tools and it's all up
to each of us to find our 'way'...we'll make mistakes along the way,but let's
have a lot of fun along the way....

[froggy]

Ray,

It isn't fun when you are losing and youv'e just had 5 seconds in a row. Nosed out at the wire by the $2.80 fav 3 times and $120.00 one and then you goof up and give the ticket seller the wrong number.

Froggy

[ray lopez]

Froggy,

I hear you,bro.Mistakes like that will happen and i find losing streaks as the
toughest thing to deal with.Expect them for they come all the time if you
want to stay in this game.Just cut down on your bets,take a walk or time off
and refresh your mind.Your mental toughness will always be tested by
this challenging sport and no software will make your mind TOUGH AS NAILS...

[owl]

My first post:

After reading all of the posted information concerning val4, I have some hope that I can re enter the frey.

I have been "away" from this wonderful endeavor for over a year (health "stuff") and the Trackmaster change did me and my instant loss using Val2 in.

Thank you to the Big 3 for all of the hours and obvious dedication in continuing the Doc's work.

OWL

[Fast4522]

Great work Ted, kudos to Binder and the gang!

[RichieP]

My first post:

After reading all of the posted information concerning val4, I have some hope that I can re enter the frey.

I have been "away" from this wonderful endeavor for over a year (health "stuff") and the Trackmaster change did me and my instant loss using Val2 in.

Thank you to the Big 3 for all of the hours and obvious dedication in continuing the Doc's work.

OWL

Welcome Owl!

I've been seeing you looking around here for a while and it's GREAT to have you chime in. Good bunch of sincere folks here.

Most important is your health "stuff". I sincerely hope you are doing ok and look forward to anything you care to post up about here to share.

Stay cool :)
Richie

[owl]

Thank's for the welcome.

Great group, generous sharing of idea's, information and opinions. The respect shown is infectious.

I requested a copy of Val4 and it was on my computer in a couple of hours.

THANK YOU BILL V

Best Owl

[Ted Craven]

Welcome Owl! You're right - I find it a very friendly and informative community here.

All the best,

Ted

[ray lopez]

The Val4 is a super program because of the V/DC readout.That's all...Just
look for value in the top 3 or 4 tiers...too many readouts makes the race so
confusing and leads to over-handicapping..remember,it's just a horse race.

[ray lopez]

Doc Sartin put the multiplicity of readouts into one,the V/DC readout.I think
he called this Probability Convergence in the Validator.Many thanks again to
Ted,Bill and Richie for the Val4...I remember a gentleman put $10,000 on
a heavy favorite to show at Aqueduct many months ago.The horse was very
strong on all readouts in Val3c and his own program.The horse decided not
to run that day and finished last...big lesson there.

[RichieP]

Doc Sartin put the multiplicity of readouts into one,the V/DC readout.I think he called this Probability Convergence in the Validator.I remember a gentleman put $10,000 on a heavy favorite to show at Aqueduct many months ago.The horse was very strong on all readouts in Val3c and his own program.The horse decided not to run that day and finished last...big lesson there.

There sure is a BIG lesson there. Sharp post Ray.
Richie