Sartin "Vector Magnetism"

[bobp]

Howard Sartin and the Sartin Methodologists developed this idea to high art back in the eighties, and called it "vector magnetism." One of the quarter horse gurus (I think Charles Carroll, but may be wrong) developed an entire "system" based on betting adjacent post postions; 12 - 23 - 34, etc.

I did about a jillion race workout on greyhounds that showed the exact same phenomena--an entry will run its best when running alongside a "faster" entry. For the same reason, harness horses aiming for speed marks use thoroughbreds running slightly in front of them as "prompters."

Some of the best horses in the world are trained on little dirt tracks in Peru, shipped North to pick up an easy win or two, then sold or sent back home. The elevation of the tracks creates great lung capacity that takes a couple of weeks to acclimate to the lower elevation. Best example: Cannonero II.
Good Luck
_________
From a friend_________

[bobp]

TO ANSWER ALL OF MY CRITICS:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First off when I posted this system, I expected plenty of negative responses and even some dumb ones, so I'm not really shocked or surprised. Like I first said, I myself, used a racing form for over 33 years, so I know when your hooked on using one, to think you can get a winner any other way, can definitely sound absurd. So I'm not trying to say to anyone, to quit what your doing.


Sure you can laugh at what I presented earlier, but I do know that I have cashed some really beautiful prices betting this way, while at the same time, when I used the form, most of the horses I bet were short or mediocre prices and that was mainly because, the form showed me the fastest horses, the classiest horses and the most consistent horses, which everyone sees so they are bet down, in most cases.

Now to the comments like, how does a horse know if he is standing next to a horse that is ready to run? Does he ask them, I think someone commented or what if he can't see the toteboard, that is also very amusing. I think someone else commented, I might as well just throw darts. Well to me those comments, refer to a horse as being stupid and if you are going to bet on something, that you think, is that stupid, then maybe you should take up darts.

I learned years ago, I mentioned that I had been to some of the tracks in Argentina, well that was because I used to work for an ex trainer, who bought horses in South America and sold them in the states for a nice profit. We bought them in Argentina, Brazil, Equador, Chile, Peru, Bolivia, Uruguay and Panama. I learned then that horses are far from stupid.

When you look in a racing form and see a horse that has been running consistent 1:13's for 3/4 of a mile, as a maiden, then breaks his maiden and gets stepped up, to an allowance race, that is run in 110.1 and he is right there in a photo, do you think he just become that good overnight or do you think, it may be because he is running with better horses?

Sure this won't win every race, but show me the guy with the form that does. Just going to the nearest charts to research this I went to Tampa Bay downs for the 25th and 26th of March, mainly because I bet on 5 of these horses and got some great payoffs, but you tell me, when was the last 2 days, you got payoffs like this out of a form.

Tampa Bay-March 25th

1st race
favorite #10 Thanks Mr G 5/2
winner #11 Bay Street Bob $48.60

6th race
favorite #2 Military Major 3/2
winner #1 Firebrook $6.00

9th race
favorite #6 He's My Man 2/1
winner #7 Stylishly $18.80

Tampa Bay March 26st

3rd race
favorite #10 Awesome Pro 8/5
winner #11 Worthmorethangold $14.40

5th race
favorite #6 Bianconi's Boy 8/5
winner #7 Rexsonhopeprospect $27.20

7th race
favorite #3 Mystery Giver 8/5
winner #2 Hitthegroundrunnin $17.80

9th race
favorite #4 Tripika 9/5
winner #3 Sharenski $27.80


Now that is just results for 2 days and as someone else commented, he worked back a couple days at a track and said it only hit 27% winners. Well at those type of prices, I think even 27% is great, because you have to hit 50% winners on horses that pay $4.00 just to break even and believe me, chalks don't win 50% of the time. That is winning 5 races on a 10 race card, just to break even, when you bet favorites. Those prices above don't reflect the size of many of the payoffs, there have been many over $50 and a few over $100 in the past few weeks.

Lets face one thing, most people are not going to bet an extreme longshot, unless they have a system of some type, that forces their hand to do it. No horse with a 98 Byers speed rating is ever going to be 50-1, nor will anything that Trackman or the Racing Form Consensus selects, will pay those type of prices. So it is your choice, it's your money.

Just passing on what a friend sent to me, but I also checked it out at the big a and it saved me in exotics more than once. Go figure.

Bobp

[bobp]

TO ANSWER ALL OF MY CRITICS:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First off when I posted this system, I expected plenty of negative responses and even some dumb ones, so I'm not really shocked or surprised. Like I first said, I myself, used a racing form for over 33 years, so I know when your hooked on using one, to think you can get a winner any other way, can definitely sound absurd. So I'm not trying to say to anyone, to quit what your doing.


Sure you can laugh at what I presented earlier, but I do know that I have cashed some really beautiful prices betting this way, while at the same time, when I used the form, most of the horses I bet were short or mediocre prices and that was mainly because, the form showed me the fastest horses, the classiest horses and the most consistent horses, which everyone sees so they are bet down, in most cases.

Now to the comments like, how does a horse know if he is standing next to a horse that is ready to run? Does he ask them, I think someone commented or what if he can't see the toteboard, that is also very amusing. I think someone else commented, I might as well just throw darts. Well to me those comments, refer to a horse as being stupid and if you are going to bet on something, that you think, is that stupid, then maybe you should take up darts.

I learned years ago, I mentioned that I had been to some of the tracks in Argentina, well that was because I used to work for an ex trainer, who bought horses in South America and sold them in the states for a nice profit. We bought them in Argentina, Brazil, Equador, Chile, Peru, Bolivia, Uruguay and Panama. I learned then that horses are far from stupid.

When you look in a racing form and see a horse that has been running consistent 1:13's for 3/4 of a mile, as a maiden, then breaks his maiden and gets stepped up, to an allowance race, that is run in 110.1 and he is right there in a photo, do you think he just become that good overnight or do you think, it may be because he is running with better horses?

Sure this won't win every race, but show me the guy with the form that does. Just going to the nearest charts to research this I went to Tampa Bay downs for the 25th and 26th of March, mainly because I bet on 5 of these horses and got some great payoffs, but you tell me, when was the last 2 days, you got payoffs like this out of a form.

Tampa Bay-March 25th

1st race
favorite #10 Thanks Mr G 5/2
winner #11 Bay Street Bob $48.60

6th race
favorite #2 Military Major 3/2
winner #1 Firebrook $6.00

9th race
favorite #6 He's My Man 2/1
winner #7 Stylishly $18.80

Tampa Bay March 26st

3rd race
favorite #10 Awesome Pro 8/5
winner #11 Worthmorethangold $14.40

5th race
favorite #6 Bianconi's Boy 8/5
winner #7 Rexsonhopeprospect $27.20

7th race
favorite #3 Mystery Giver 8/5
winner #2 Hitthegroundrunnin $17.80

9th race
favorite #4 Tripika 9/5
winner #3 Sharenski $27.80


Now that is just results for 2 days and as someone else commented, he worked back a couple days at a track and said it only hit 27% winners. Well at those type of prices, I think even 27% is great, because you have to hit 50% winners on horses that pay $4.00 just to break even and believe me, chalks don't win 50% of the time. That is winning 5 races on a 10 race card, just to break even, when you bet favorites. Those prices above don't reflect the size of many of the payoffs, there have been many over $50 and a few over $100 in the past few weeks.

Lets face one thing, most people are not going to bet an extreme longshot, unless they have a system of some type, that forces their hand to do it. No horse with a 98 Byers speed rating is ever going to be 50-1, nor will anything that Trackman or the Racing Form Consensus selects, will pay those type of prices. So it is your choice, it's your money.

Again this came from a friend. I tested it out on the Big A and it saved me more than once in the Exotics.
BobP

[admin]

Hello Bob

Its possible but just because the public bets a horse to the favorite
does not make it the best horse in todays match up

Seem like a theroy that could work
but in a long race who really is next to who?

[bobp]

Bill, of course this is not meant to be anything but a thought for consideration.

Example: Mountaineer last night 11-18-07 6th race

Val 4 BL/BL (after hiding the 5 )
ML POST TIME TOT-R VDC CPR TPP

4 5-1 5-2 1 1 1 1
8 8-1 9-1 2 1 2 2
10 10-1 12-1 6 1 4 5
3 3-1 11-1 3 3 3 3
1 8-1 9-2 4 4 4 4
2 7-2 2-1 5 5 4 6
EXACTA 4-3 $85 TRI 4-3-2 $ 227.40 *1 ran 4th

Bob

[socantra]

It sounds a bit on the strange side to me, but Jerry Stokes at A1Handicapping used to claim you need to use adjacent horses in exotic bets. Who knows.

Aside from Bill's comment that the horses don't run around the track in the order they were lined up in the starting gate, I wonder how you decide which adjacent horse to bet. Escept for the inside and outside horse, they all have a horse next to them on each side.:confused:

I guess its a good thing that the Sartin Methodology traditionally bets 2 horses to win.:D

Dick...

[alydar_ David]

Our group of bettors refer to that as "the horse next to the horse." Including such an entrant is mandatory (in exotics) for some of the guys if the horse is a nice price.

This has been around for at least 20 years in our circle. :::shrug:::

[socantra]

Does that mean that if you bet the #5 horse, you have to include both the #6 and the #7 horse. In other words, for each entrant in your exotic bet, you have to bet those on both sides of it?

I've heard the same thing about "the horse next to the horse", but it seems like it could become cost prohibitive very quickly.

Dick...

[bobp]

Dick, It makes it real easy when your top choice is 1 in Total R,TPP,VDC, and CPR, going off at 5-2. and the other horse #3 in this case was going off at 12-1, but ranked 4th in BL/BL, and 3 in everthing else. I used Total R to eliminate the 10 as well as the 5. The result was a nice little Tri.Had to include the 2 because the board had so much action on it.

Anyway, this was the case last night. you have to be comfortable with your decision. I dont advocate betting randomly.

Bob

PS: when I sumitted the data originally, all the numbers were lined up.
for easy reading. sorry about that. promising to do better.

[bobp]

There ya go. thanks for the input.

bob

[bobp]

thanks,

bobp

[kiltman]

Bob have I got this right, If the favorite is the 3 for instance you bet the 2 and 4? If the 5 is favorite you bet 4 and 6? Also is that the morning line favorite or the actual odds on favorite at post time?
Russ

[bobp]

check your numbers 1st always. if the horse does not show up somewhere in the top 4 of TPP,BL/BL, CPR, Fx(in sprints) FW or Entrophy, you may want to pass the exotics. And as far as LSP (long shot potential), it needs to have something to make it look like it could run today ( recency, bad trip, class drop, good jockey/trainner combo. thats why most us stick to 2 tracks, so we can look at the big picture. I think Primary and Supp collaries are powerful, and always check out the EPR LPR. In last nights race 4 was a 1
EPR and a 5 LPR. But lone early made the pace easy for him.

Good cappin;
Bobp

[bobp]

In that 6th last night the favorite was the 2 horse . Val ranked him 8th. there was a lot of action on him so I included him. but to answer your question directly its the post time odds. He ran 3rd and completed the Tri. i did not have him in the top 2 in my bet.