RDSS Export to Synergism Poll [Archive] - Pace and Cap

mildeu

07-12-2012, 01:29 PM

Ted,
Thank you for the thread. I am most interesed in RDSS, however, having had the great opportunity to use Synergism 2 (now lost someware) and Synergism 3, I see some presentations or visuals that are not, for me anyway, as easily viewed.

But my major point is, that I have purchased the Synergism programs in the past and would like to be able to run them again without hand entry (efficiency), regardless as to weather I use RDSS or not, as I have purchased TRACKMASTER DATA FILES, I would like to think that I may use them in whatever program I may be using.

I do like many features in RDSS, but find that some screens seem to be to busy?

Ted Craven

07-12-2012, 02:15 PM

I do like many features in RDSS, but find that some screens seem to be to busy?

Dennis, So as to not drift this thread about Synergism, could I ask you to post in a separate thread which screen or screens in RDSS you find too busy. Or email me. Details are appreciated. It will help me make RDSS more effective.

Thank you!

Ted

partsnut

07-12-2012, 04:17 PM

Hi Ted,

I guess by now you know that I would be strongly in favor of a Synergism export feature. I appreciate your interest in this matter,

I enjoy using RDSS and would definitely subscribe.
RDSS is as good as anything out there and is a great tool all by itself. I feel that it would be a big plus and an excellent handicapping feature for your software that would appeal to some on this board as well as those that participate on sites such as the other Sartin board and PaceAdvantage.
I would strongly believe there are quite a few out there that still use the older versions of Synergism and there are those that haven't used them but will when these conversion features come to pass.

Being as you do have conversion features that works with KGEN and Energy, which are excellent programs and which I have frequently and successfully used, I personally believe Synergism is much better and it would enhance your software by 10 fold.
The fact that the par times would never have to be updated for Synergism 3 and or Synergism 4 s a selling point in itself and would revive and automate one of the best programs ever produced. This fact has been validated by Dick Schmidt who has praised Bob Purdy's efforts repeatedly
To me this would be a progressive move.
If you will notice, the activity on your Synergism segment is drawing some interest and attention.
The successful postings of Jeff (shoeless) and other knowledgeable people like Pino, Alydar and Mike Batur will encourage and instill interest in this feature.

shoeless

07-12-2012, 05:06 PM

My question is would the data be sent over raw to these programs or would it be adjusted.

Also how would it be determined what the setup distance is by the majority of pacelines
or just by the program

Ted Craven

07-12-2012, 05:16 PM

As with export files for Energy/Thoromation, etc you could create a file with EITHER raw unadjusted data, OR adjusted to the distance of today's race, with Daily and Inter-Track variants applied.

It would be your choice.

Ted

shoeless

07-12-2012, 07:19 PM

chris

07-12-2012, 07:56 PM

1965/66, somewhere back then, found me behind the wheel of a Pontiac GTO convertible, of course I thought it was the best automobile on the road. Time has tempered my enthusiam - would not trade my Mazda front wheel drive, automatic transimission, with all the power opltions imaginable for two GTO's. My legacy with the Sartin programs began with phase III (believe it was III) and Synergism II, and then Bob Purdy's version. Great programs both of them, but I have no desire to return to either. When Sartin programs went to downloading data files, I made the switch and havn't looked back.

Though I can understand why those who use Synergism still find it attractive. Though i believe the questions is "if RDSS could export a file for Synergism, would you still use RDSS?"

I would stay with RDSS, it supports what I do with a program. I'm a better handicapper then I was in the Synergism days and often arrive at a decision well before I go to a program. What I find invaluable with RDSS is the ease of navigating through multiiple scenarios quickly, for example, am I dealing with a time horse, a position horse, or one that can go either way. The primary reason I run multiple scenarios is that horses often defy a single characterization, if the odds are generous I'm going with the scenario that flatters my choice. That's just one example.

Rather than see you spend your time creating an export option for Synergism, I believe many of us would profit from a less cumbersome printing option.

Still your friend,
chris

Ted Craven

07-12-2012, 08:38 PM

Chris,

Noooooo - the question is NOT would you still use RDSS, but would you start using RDSS if you don't use it already!!

If a certain number of people who do not currently use RDSS say they will start using it (i.e. and start subscribing) if only they could export to Synergism, well that would influence my work schedule.

(I agree printing is important, but a Syn export might be a smaller task and deliverable sooner).

Thanks for the feedback Chris (Still your friend too!)

Ted

partsnut

07-13-2012, 03:45 AM

I would vote no then as the best way according to Purdy to use the setup times in Synergism is by the majority of the distances you are using in the pp's.

Also would like to comment on Mildeu posts using Synergism,for me the reason I like it is the simplicity of having only 3 screens.

1st screen- all the factors readouts

2nd screen and in my opinion the most important dream race and SCBL

3rd screen-rankings

There is more then enough info here to get you by.
Jeff
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Jeff, the paceline selection would be done through RDSS. You would have the option to equalize (adjust) by distances and /or surfaces or you could use the raw data.
The pars would be governed by RDSS and there would be no need for yearly updating of pars.
In a sense Synergism would provide the readouts that would be reliant on the data provided by RDSS The process would be easy to do and as far as I'm concerned, and very efficient.
To my mind Synergisms strength are it's readouts which makes a final decision for a single horse easier for me.

shoeless

07-13-2012, 07:53 AM

Parts,

I was referring to Synergism 2 which doesnt use pars

Ted,

You might want to have added maybe to your poll because if the
people who are using it are doing well it might intice the no's to buy
it.

Ted Craven

07-16-2012, 12:47 PM

Just so I understand the responses correctly - am I right in thinking that (as of July 15) 8 people who currently do not use RDSS will purchase an annual subscription ($100/year) if the software can export to Synergism?

Did I get that right?

Ted

ray lopez

07-16-2012, 01:31 PM

Yes,count me in Ted.

shoeless

07-16-2012, 07:45 PM

Ted,

There you go now it is worth it for you to do so.

Ted Craven

07-16-2012, 08:22 PM

Jeff (+Ray, Bill)

It looks like the interest is indeed there. It was always on my list, but the squeaky wheel ...

I'll look at this ASAP. Thanks!

Ted

partsnut

07-17-2012, 08:22 AM

Jeff (+Ray, Bill)

It looks like the interest is indeed there. It was always on my list, but the squeaky wheel ...

I'll look at this ASAP. Thanks!

Ted
-------------------------------------------------------
Ted, I am very excited about the results of your poll.
I thank you for the poll. your open mindedness and applaud your efforts to make RDSS, a great piece of software, even better then it is.
You are very progressive.
I personally thank those that supported this poll and the insight and wisdom they displayed. They may now see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I anticipate using the strength of your equalized RDSS files into some
very formidable Synergism applications.
I am very confident that the results will be very strong and will serve as a great decision maker for those of us that are win bettors and bet just one horse to win or might be looking for a strong contest horse or the key horse in an exotic bet.
This possible new feature will serve as a very strong confirmation tool to all users (Synergism).
There are many Synergism users out there and hopefully they will come out and openly support this effort.

Things are looking up said the saucer to the cup.:D

Houndog

07-17-2012, 02:12 PM

Actually I have a few questions regarding the export from RDSS to Synergism as I don’t know how it would work but than again I am not a computer programmer.

Synergism II: As Jeff has stated Synergism II uses set-up times which I think creates some sort of meridian variant.

Synergism III: Assuming you could export a file from RDSS to Synergism III I think Synergism III will still be looking for the Syner3.Par file and try to use it. What I did was renamed the Syner3.Par file and tried running Synergism III. Here is the screenshot of what happened.

Synergism IV: Synergism IV use a par file called Syner.par Same result.

Of course Ted may have a better idea on how to approach this but it seems to me as it is now the only thing you could do would be to export a raw un-adjusted file to Synergism III and Synergism IV and use the Par Files within the respective programs. BTW both Synergism III and Synergism IV can use the same par file as long as you rename them as shown below. Also I think you should run synerpar.exe in Synergism IV if you update your par files which updates the BSYNER.PAR file which Synergism IV uses.

The Energy/THOROMATION export was different in that Energy and THOROMATION did not use set-up times or internal par times but created it’s adjustments according to the horses entered in the program.

I am all for an export to Synergism and as I stated Ted know’s more about programming then I do. Unless I am missing something obvious I think Synergism III and IV will always be looking for a par file. I encourage all interested parties to comment on this because someone may have a better idea. -------Mike “Houndog”

Screenshot follow.

partsnut

07-17-2012, 02:55 PM

[quote=Houndog;81584]Actually I have a few questions regarding the export from RDSS to Synergism as I don’t know how it would work but than again I am not a computer programmer.
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Hi Mike,
How are you? I hope all is well.

From what I am led to believe, the "RAC" file can be created through RDSS using RDSS par files and can be adjusted or equalized if one desires to do so and then exported to a properly formatted "RAC" file. The file would just have to be read by the Synergism program and would not need to use the Synergism par files.
I might be wrong but I think this might work,
I believe the par files in Synergism only comes into play when you try to create a file withing the Synergism program. The file created by RDSS would just have to be read by Synergism.

Houndog

07-17-2012, 02:59 PM

Parts, Good Point! That's why I asked for other opinions. Just as you have stated opening up an existing RAC file without creating a file within Synergism should bypass the par file issue.

Houndog

07-17-2012, 04:01 PM

It appears Synergism IV saves file differently then Synergism III. The extension is the track such as CD instead of RAC extension. For example if the race was the 5th race at Churchill for today it would be JUL1705.CD.

partsnut

07-17-2012, 04:03 PM

Parts, Good Point! That's why I asked for other opinions. Just as you have stated opening up an existing RAC file without creating a file within Synergism should bypass the par file issue.
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Mike,

You have been a good friend and it was because of your hard work and efforts, I became interested in Synergism.
I won a contest over at PaceAdvantage because of your generosity.
I never properly thanked you for it but will do so now.

I am excited about the prospect of using this software again and hopefully many of us on this board will be successful with it's use.

Please remember that it is through Ted Cravens efforts with RDSS that
the Synergism file conversion will come to pass. I believe that it's Ted wish to develop many winners. Ted is committed and sincere in his efforts.
He's a pleasure to deal with. His efforts should be strongly supported.
Please also remember there would be no Synergism without Bob Purdy.
He's a very nice guy and has generously allowed Jeff (Shoeless) to distribute the older versions to those he wishes to give it to.

Mike, I think that when the software comes to pass that you should be a beta tester. I believe Ted would welcome you. You are very talented with Synergism. There is no one I'd like to see win with it more then you and Shoeless.. You can teach these folks quite a bit. So can Jeff.
Jeff has recently shown what he is capable of. He is a student of Synergism.

Not withstanding, I would have to mention that Richie P. was an expert with this software and it was not uncommon to see Richie bang out some nice $30.00 plus winners.
Alydar was very formidable with this software and he has done quite well on the contest circuit.
These are some very talented people. We can all learn from them

Houndog

07-17-2012, 04:17 PM

partsnut

07-17-2012, 04:41 PM

Parts, thanks for all the kind remarks. Actually Jeff, yourself, PINO, RichieP and others are more proficient with this program. You are absolutely correct in giving Bob Purdy his due credit.

The reason I raise the points that I do is that I am not entirely sure when the par file comes into play. Say for instance if we sent adjusted lines to Synergism would they be adjusted again with the par file. I am trying to test various scenarios and see if I can grasp a better understanding of what is happening.
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Mike, it is my belief that the par files only come into play with a newly created files from Synegism. That being said, it appears to me that if the saved converted RDSS data files have the same file structure as does the Synergism file, it will be read by the Synergism software.
Hopefully, I am correct but it is possible I might be wrong.
I am optimistic that Ted will solve the problem if any and make it work.

Houndog

07-17-2012, 04:47 PM

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Mike, it is my belief that the par files only come into play with a newly created files from Synegism. That being said, it appears to me that if the saved converted RDSS data files have the same file structure as does the Synergism file, it will be read by the Synergism software.
Hopefully, I am correct but it is possible I might be wrong.
I am optimistic that Ted will solve the problem if any and make it work.

Parts, I am also optimistic and I will wait for Ted's comments concerning this.

Ted Craven

07-17-2012, 04:49 PM

Folks,

Thank you all for the kind words expressed. Of course anything I may be able to do with a Synergism data file should steal not a whit of claim from Bob Purdy who was the originator of Synergism. Not forgetting Howard Sartin who fostered such an incubator of creativity in those formative years!

Although I am not committing to a delivery schedule for whatever Synergism export from RDSS2 may be possible, when I have something to test, I will announce it here and EVERYONE who has expressed their interest in the poll and this discussion forum can try RDSS and its connection to Synergism for at least the 30 day evaluation period, or as long as it takes to Beta test this particular module.

The group feedback will get it done more quickly!

cheers,

Ted

shoeless

07-17-2012, 07:31 PM

Parts and Houndog thanks for kind words.

At one time Richie,Pino and I were banging out some really good winners with Sidewaters method.It was Richie who first intoduced the program to Pino and I.

Purdy gave me his blessing to give the program to people who had once bought it but no longer has it.Of course there is no way to prove except
just to believe what people are telling you is true.

Ted,

It is none of my buisness but you might want to give your program to
Purdy once it is done.Houndog and I did so when he updated the pars for Syn 3 and 4.We thought it was the right thing to do.

partsnut

07-17-2012, 09:46 PM

WOX 07-18-12 Race 8 Using Synergism 2

Moved to its own thread: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8490

Ted Craven

08-11-2012, 06:34 PM

I have released an update to RDSS2 Beta2.5 which adds Synergism2 (either Unadjusted or Adjusted) to the list of export data file formats. This is a preliminary version to support Synergism, and as yet does not support Syn3 file format, only Syn2.

Anyone who is a registered RDSS user can download the current version here: www.rdss2.com/r2b2.5 (http://www.rdss2.com/r2b2.5)

If you are not currently using RDSS and would like to try out the export to Synergism2, simply read the RDSS Getting Started Page (http://www.sartinmethodology.com/how_to_obtain_rdss), then send me an email. Since I will be away on a vacation between August 24 to September 15, the normal 30 day evaluation period will be extended to September 21. Unfortunately, I won't be able to set people up for RDSS while I'm gone, so if you're interested, the sooner the better! Next week, I'll be in (or to and from) Saratoga, so my response times to emails and phone calls may be just a tad slower.

I added this export in response to interest expressed in the Poll at the top of this thread by folks who are not yet users of RDSS. You will need to master navigation and paceline selection in RDSS2, as well as establish a TrackMaster account for data. Release Notes and videos for learning all about using RDSS2 can be found at the 2 links above.

Here is a 2 part video made by Bill V explaining how to use the new Syn2 file export from RDSS2:

http://www.sartinmethodology.com/video/SYN2_Part1.mp4
http://www.sartinmethodology.com/video/SYN2_Part2.mp4

You need a video player, such as VideoLan Player (http://www.videolan.org/) to watch these videos.

The only nuance added to the software since Bill's video is a checkbox to limit exported pacelines to Primary Contenders (if you have designated some horses as Secondary, or non-Win Contenders).

Important Note: This export option is provided for people who already own a license to Synergism2 (and/or eventually Synergism3) and would like to automate data entry (i.e. use RDSS facilities to get data into Synergism). I have no plans to add a Synergism 4 export. I also cannot provide Synergism software to those who do not already own it (i.e. have at one time paid Dr Sartin for Bob Purdy for it, or bought original disks from someone else).

Enjoy the new export feature and feel free to discuss the issues, or give suggestions, in this forum.

All the best,

Ted

Ted Craven

10-18-2012, 12:35 PM

Here is an update on the RDSS2 to Synergism export project.

The poll at the top of this thread asked who was interested in using RDSS to export data to Synergism, if you did not already use RDSS. Presuming everyone understood the poll question, I interpreted that to indicate that 15 respondants said they would subscribe to RDSS if they could use it to export data for use in Synergism 2 or 3 - and that it would be worth my time (and valuable to many people) to do that work.

Subsequently, I did spend a significant amount of time adding the first part that module (i.e. Syn2) to RDSS, and publishing a new update for testing (and delayed work on other RDSS components by the same amount of time).

After waiting what I thought was a reasonable amount of time for feedback and for at least some of those 15 poll respondents to step up - I can report that precisely 1 new person has subscribed to RDSS to get the Syn2 export. To the best of my knowledge, no one else has even asked to try the RDSS Evaluation for the primary purpose of evaluating the Syn2 export.

To say the least, the response has been underwhelming - and disappointing re the time lost on my part.

I conclude that either most of the poll respondents were not serious, or they do not really use Synergism, or based on some posted comments they have determined that RDSS does just as good a job as Synergism and perhaps one day will get around to RDSS (or did get around to it and didn't say they responded in the Synergism poll). Perhaps some people who already use RDSS responded in the poll - which is not what the poll asked.

Setting aside the data export of running times pre-adjusted by RDSS - the raw time export from RDSS is identical to the data input you must do by hand in Synergism2. You still must do setup times and track records for adjustments made in Syn2, if you intend to use Syn2 as described by Bob Purdy and Doc Sartin.

Unless I get some further serious interest in this module, I won't be continuing work on it. The existing Syn2 data format export will always remain. If the one person who subscribed expecting more future Synergism-related components in RDSS would like a refund, please just write to me.

Best of luck and skill to those using Synergism, and/or RDSS!

Ted

shoeless

10-18-2012, 06:03 PM

Sorry Ted to hear that more people did not do what they commited to but
I had a feeling that would be the case.

I think if your going to go ahead and get RDSS that your better off using
the features of that program.

partsnut

10-19-2012, 01:52 PM

Ted Craven:

Unless I get some further serious interest in this module, I won't be continuing work on it. The existing Syn2 data format export will always remain. If the one person who subscribed expecting more future Synergism-related components in RDSS would like a refund, please just write to me.

Best of luck and skill to those using Synergism, and/or RDSS!

Ted

Hi Ted,

Due to increasing health problems I have chosen to curtail my horse racing activities.

I promoted the use of RDSS with Synergism in good faith and because I believed and still do, that it would be a big plus for anyone that used it in the correct manor.
I did everything possible to stimulate interest in the new conversion mode.
Hopefully, it attracted new members to your site that did in fact subscribe to your software.

Bill V. was creative enough to produce 2 videos which tested the 2 options the conversion module offered. Anyone that viewed them would have a very good idea of which option to use and how to use this new tool.

In any case and after all was said and done, there was a lack of interest in the conversion module. Some of the comments made by some of the members here put the nails in the coffin. There was those that said they would get better results doing it manually. As well, they contended that the conversion module with RDSS was not the way to use Synergism and it did not follow the prescribed method of use that was recommended by the original author of the software.

It totally amazes me that these same people are now offering their condolences.

I am sorry that you were inconvenienced and wasted your time.
You did a nice piece of work that was not recognized or understood by many and appreciated by few.
I too devoted my time and energy to further this product.

Please see the attach referral list from 1 day in August which brought 215 views to your site and was viewed at my site 539 times.