Please Join the August Contest!

[Ted Craven]

I want to invite as many people as possible to join the RDSS - Learn to Win contest in August. We have revised the rules somewhat to encourage optimal betting practices (within the overall Win, Place format) and made a few other scoring changes which I think will make for a stronger contest.

Please read the Changes for August, here: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=81981&postcount=5

The updated Official Rules for August are here: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=81980&postcount=4

Briefly:

1) Your Bankroll is your Contest Score. Plus, you get a Bonus if your Hit Rate exceeds 50% (.500)

2) Hit Rate is changed such that Place bets only count as a 'hit' if the Place mutuel is as good as or better than the Win mutuel (i.e. it was a better bet).

4) If you finish one 20 race cycle, you can start another one. Your best (complete) cycle is the one which counts in the Contest.

3) The RDSS Subscription prizes now require at least a breakeven Bankroll ($2000) PLUS a 50% Hit Rate.

We have at least $200 in Cash and RDSS Data Prizes for August, and the prize fund may rise significantly yet.

Our Contest Spreadsheet can help you see where your best betting opportunities come from and help you learn the discipline to make effective use of the RDSS tools and the Methodology multi-pool, multi-horse betting strategies. We continue to encourage Players to describe their analysis decisions, both for the benefit of others - AND themselves.

If you're new to RDSS - please join us and learn to Win (RDSS evaluators welcomed - win your annual Subscription). If you are an expert, we appreciate you taking the time to teach and help others improve their game (and take home unlimited data or a cash prize).

I also want to say - although a single 20 race cycle in a month is no particular proof of ongoing excellence - there is a remarkable majority of Players this month who are at, or well above breakeven. You could do worse (financially) than to watch for and bet some people's selections, plus int he long run, really improve your game by watching their play and emulating it (or asking them for a few pointers).

The July daily Contest Summary: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8447

The August Contest Forum will go up this Weekend - come one, come all!

See you there!

Ted

[JimG]

So, if you put all $100 to place on a horse, and it wins, do you get credit for a hit? What if it just places and the winner pays more?

Jim

[Bill V.]

You get a hit because your place bet was your only bet
You may make the bet you descibe.

Ted, Question from me
Lets say I bet $70 win on horse A
and $30 place on Horse B

Horse A runs off the board
Horse B places and pays $9.00
Horse C wins and pays $7.00

Do I get a hit because the place price is higher than the winners price ?
Thanks
Bill

[Bill V.]

I just spoke to Ted and we have come to the conclusion that unfortunately
In your example you would not get a hit. You would only get the money amount added to your bankroll


For some honest people who do possess the proper skill to make place bets in some situations, I'm sorry that this skill is being taken
away from you. Unfortunately because of the potential for miss use of the hit rate clause , and
In keeping the true spirit of teaching people how to win and not bet foolishly we must disallow a hit on
place only wagers

I for one think its a sad decision but do we have an alternative ?

For The little kid in all of us
Just Do The Best You Can !

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[Ted Craven]

We thought long and hard about how to improve the rules. We wanted to discourage what I would call 'frivolous' Place wagers which only serve to increase the Hit Rate but do not really make money, or which misuse a wager unit over the long term.

Betting on a legitimate longshot to Place is a good idea, and there are numerous examples of it in the July and June Contests. We arrived at the rules modification: to increase Hit Rate the Place mutuel needs to meet or beat the Win mutuel. To permit a 'hit' on any Place mutuel, regardless of how much it pays, permits bets like $100 Place on an EVEN odds winner. This kind of bet would increase Hit Rate, but it would not be profitable in the long run, and likely the same person who might bet it in the Contest, would never think of doing it in reality.

I agree with Bill - it is unfortunate that if you have identified the best bet in the race, and it is on a horse who stands a better chance to Place than to Win - why be denied a legitimate 'hit' if that's the bet you were really aiming for, just because your longshot horse happens to win (and you only bet it to Place)? The solution, of course, is to have something to Win on it however small - then it's always a hit.

Our new rule about Place bets only counting as a hit if they pay more than the Win Mutuel may not be pure and perfect, but I do think it tightens up the intent of rewarding good Place bets with a hit, while preventing or discouraging bad Place bets. And the notion of Hit rate, and a rewarding a Hit rate > 50%, encourages the consistency factor we wanted to emphasize in this Contest.

A reminder - as our rules currently stand for August, you do get a hit on a Place bet - if the Place mutuel is equal to or greater than the Win mutuel.

If anyone has any further ideas to help tighten up the Contest, while not overly complicating it, we would sincerely invite comments here - before the beginning of August!

Ted

[Ted Craven]

ted, question from me
lets say i bet $70 win on horse a
and $30 place on horse b

horse a runs off the board
horse b places and pays $9.00
horse c wins and pays $7.00

do i get a hit because the place price is higher than the winners price ?
Thanks
bill

Yes!

[JimG]

If anyone has any further ideas to help tighten up the Contest, while not overly complicating it, we would sincerely invite comments here - before the beginning of August!

Ted

Sent you a pm on this.

Jim

[partsnut]

2) Hit Rate is changed such that Place bets only count as a 'hit' if the Place mutuel is as good as or better than the Win mutuel (i.e. it was a better bet).Hi Ted,

To my way of thinking and in my opinion, a losing bet is just that and should be scored as just that.
It seems that the hit rate in your contest is predicated on the total amount bet and not on the individual type bets. To me, even though some are making proportional money bets and counting the total profit on the multiple bets as an individual hit, does not in my opinion, exemplify a true hit rate. A true hit rate is based on individual, profitable bets whether they be win or place. A losing bet is a losing bet and should be scored as such.

Being as I have not participated in the contests, I really don't have much to say about them but am just offering my opinion.
Most contests that I've seen are predicated on the actual money won.

[Bill V.]

Hello Bill H.


I appreciate your post on this matter but I think I disagree,
Nobody should tell anybody how to bet .
To me if you bet on one horse and lose you are flying in the face of basic Sartin Methodology guidelines and principles.
However there is no rule in the methodology that says you must bet 2 horses to win.
2 horse betting is a good option and its just a better approach for most people. But its just that, an option.

One horse betting is your right just as is betting two to win, one win and one win/place or one horse to place, or two horses to place.
Or as some like Patrick have shown a good profit can be made with two horses to win and place.

I have to disagree with your feeling that each bet should be counted as a separate hit If so your basically saying people who bet 2 horses to win either 50/50 or 60/40 or what ever proportional amounts should also not be given a hit, because with their win they also have a loss bet
unless there is a dead heat. If so then to me it comes across like those who bet place are unworthy and should be punished.
I think if you make a bet in what ever structure is to your ABILITY and taste and that bet provides you with a profit over the cost of your bet, than that is what should be the most important factor and if you show a profit over the cost of your bet in any amount you deserve a hit
I also am happy you mention that the Learn To Win contest is unlike all the rest
I take that as a compliment and I know Ted does too. It was our goal !

GS
Bill

[partsnut]

Hello Bill H.


I appreciate your post on this matter but I think I disagree,
Nobody should tell anybody how to bet .
To me if you bet on one horse and lose you are flying in the face of basic Sartin Methodology guidelines and principles.
However there is no rule in the methodology that says you must bet 2 horses to win.
2 horse betting is a good option and its just a better approach for most people. But its just that, an option.

One horse betting is your right just as is betting two to win, one win and one win/place or one horse to place, or two horses to place.
Or as some like Patrick have shown a good profit can be made with two horses to win and place.

I have to disagree with your feeling that each bet should be counted as a separate hit If so your basically saying people who bet 2 horses to win either 50/50 or 60/40 or what ever proportional amounts should also not be given a hit, because with their win they also have a loss bet
unless there is a dead heat. If so then to me it comes across like those who bet place are unworthy and should be punished.
I think if you make a bet in what ever structure is to your ABILITY and taste and that bet provides you with a profit over the cost of your bet, than that is what should be the most important factor and if you show a profit over the cost of your bet in any amount you deserve a hit
I also am happy you mention that the Learn To Win contest is unlike all the rest
I take that as a compliment and I know Ted does too. It was our goal !

GS
Bill
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Bill,

I would never try and tell anyone how to bet.
I could care less if someone wanted to bet on 5 horses to win, place or otherwise in a given race.
All I'm saying is that it is my opinion that a combination of 2 individual bets should not be counted as 1 bet when calculating a "hit rate".
Each individual bet is just that, an individual bet.

That being said, nice job in the July contest.

[Bill V.]

Thanks Bill H.


I'm sorry for my inability to understand your point
Everybody who has entered into the June and July has
done so ,agreeing to a set of rules. To enter the contest they have indicated that they have read and understand these rules.
In the "Leran To Win" contest format Ted and I have set up, the rules state.

to review :

2. Consistency. Hitting a $200 Win bet is a thrilling, yet unsatisfying (to others) way to win a contest and can be a demonstration of short-term luck rather than long-term skill. We wish to emphasize consistency as a foundational concept of the Sartin Methodology. Thus, Win mutuels will be capped at 20-1 ($42.00) and Place mutuels at 10-1 ($22.00). Further, there will be a consistency scoring system as part of this Contest,

Hit Rate (i.e. 'batting average') tallied for every player ongoing, in each month's contest. Hit Rate = number of events (i.e. 20 per month) / number of Wins or Places. For example, a player makes bets in 20 races in a month. In 11 of those races, a horse you bet on runs either 1st or 2nd (or both, in the case of 2 horses). The Hit Rate = 11/20 = .550 (or 55%). A players total bankroll ($2000 – 20 x $100 + winnings from the 11 races) is multiplied by the Hit Rate to get the Final Score. For example, in the 11 of 20 races hit, a player has net winnings of $2700 and a Hit Rate of .550. Their Final Score is $2700 x .550 = $1485. The Final Score is a combination of Net Winnings and Consistency.

So as I read your post, are you are saying that the only people who should get the hit rate (i.e. batting average) bonus added to their score are people who only bet 1 horse per race ?

Please clarify thank you
Bill

[Ted Craven]

Hello Folks,

We've decided to go with a simple definition of Hit Rate for August, which is described in the August Contest Rules Changes (http://paceandcap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=81981&postcount=2).

Simply: you get a Hit if your bet makes money. If you break even or if you lose money over all your bets in a given race, you do get the money for your Bankroll, but no Hit. Hit Rate above 50% (.500) gets you a Bankroll 'Consistency' Bonus.

Please see the Official Rules (http://paceandcap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=81980&postcount=1) and the Changes Summary for complete details, or to ask for any clarifications.

Please join the Contest, win $$$ Prizes, learn, teach - enjoy the fantastic tools and community we have here!

yours,

Ted

[dirty moose]

I'd like to join you guys. Seems like fun. I will have to read all the rules.

[Ted Craven]

Moose - LOL! That Contest was from August of last year (2012). Perhaps we should consider resurrecting some kind of Contest for the Autumn ...

Ted

[dirty moose]

Ha wow. That's funny and sad all at the same time.
I noticed it in the similar threads at the bottom of the page. I just assumed it was new lol

Anywho. How are you feeling ted?

[Ted Craven]

Matt,

Better and better, although with a lot of typing, my forearm gets pretty sore after several hours. This morning I went to my regular horseback riding lesson and managed to do 45 minutes of lunge-lining with a fairly feisty mare and the shoulder is only 'singing' a little bit. So that's a good sign!

For now, instead of a Contest, why not practice a few race posts in Selections of the type you would have done IF there actually was a Contest!?

Post a screenshot before the race, give a few words about your analysis process and state a wager (including any conditions you apply if you're not making it at post-time). It could be great practice!

cheers,

Ted

[Bill V.]

I'm ready to fire up another contest.

How about some idea's for a format ?

Bill

[Hoof 11]

Matt,

This morning I went to my regular horseback riding lesson and managed to do 45 minutes of lunge-lining with a fairly feisty mare and the shoulder is only 'singing' a little bit. So that's a good sign!

Ted

Is there any chance of a possible mount at WO in the distant future? lol

Seriously though, riding horses after surgery? You might want to slow down there Tex.

That contest sounds like a good idea, avert some of the recent negativity into some positive teaching lessons.