RDSS Online Group - Live Play

[Ted Craven]

OK, here's a thread to figure out the optimal way to do a multi-party Skype group, sharing voice and screens (do we need video, don't think so, plus it eats bandwidth and I'd have to brush my hair ;-)

I have a Skype Premium subscription. I understand I can connect 10 different Skype accounts at the same time - just add them to a Contact Group. I have a Contact Group named Sartin Methodology.

When I happen to be online in Skype (which is only when I need to, not by default) I can connect 9 others to the same audio and screen discussion. Just the same as we can using TeamViewer only with fewer presentation controls and fewer people (15 using TeamViewer).

When I am not online in Skype, how do people connect to the Skype Group? Do I need to have a separate Skype account, with Premium subscription (for multi-party screen/voice sharing), for example loaded and always running on an unattended server (I have one)? I can't always have Skype going and always be part of a Skype group discussion.

And Chat (SMS) - what is the purpose of doing this via Skype - isn't that just what the P&C bulletin board is?

These are some of the logistics I don't yet understand of using a Skype Group to facilitate group live play. Anyone who has done this before, or understands this better, please feel free to share ideas here.

Right now, 1:15pm Eastern, I am online Skype and happy to talk this through with anyone. Also do some live play of perhaps Philly or Beulah?

My Skype ID is ted.craven (Huntsville, Ontario, Canada)

I suspect TeamViewer (http://www.teamviewer.com)(free) is a better tool for doing live play, sharing screens and audio, and perhaps we could run some tests of that soon too (not today though, for me).

cheers,

Ted

[pktruckdriver]

Awesome Ted, and for TeamViewer that is what you use to hook up with us and have the freedom to use each other's computer's is it not? We were talking about how to do that just a few days ago, and wanted to talk to you about it, but getting you is difficult, so I will use others to ask you,( as your time is filled with many more important things than me), as Skype goes I am a member of 2 HSH groups, and 1 is for live play, and the other more for HSH stuff, but both are "Type Only" format's, and yes it could be done in a forum, only thing is no one wishes to. Which is sad kinda, playing live races ffor me anyway is always a way for the other guy to shine and show what he has done and how he/she has done it. And it gives you a chance to see if you are close to what they are doing, or even weirder, you both have the same horse but took way different paths to get there, that is always a natural learning experience.

https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA973/how-do-i-organize-members-of-my-skype-manager-into-groups?frompage=search&q=forming+a+group&fromSearchFirstPage=false


I got that from Skype support in forming Groups, right now I am a registered user of Skype, same name as here, andd talk now to others but talking only to one at a time, yet able to type to many others also. I am unaware of what the true capabilities of Skype are, but heard many people can talk in a group call, as I have had 4 people once, but I was added in from the other end, sorry.

As for the forum being able to do Live Play, sure it could, but limited to typing only, which works too. Now one thing I learned about Live Play, it is best to handicap the night before and be ready to bet when it comes around, as sometimes we get carried away and miss post times and such, as we watch the odds and go back and forth, as most people live playing do watch for odds to decide whether to pass or not. This is very good way to learn how to pass, by passing with others and seeing it is okay to watch and say I would have had it, but it did not pay enough for me, always sweet when done when others to see it too. I know it sounds crazy, but it works that way, kinda like Doc's might say, Group Therapy session's work best , becaause it is harder to fool many than it is to fool one, or something nutty like that.

I am getting off on a tangent, that the right word ? I think any of these venues would help us, IF ONLY WE USED THEM AND PARTICIPATED , that is the only way to prove what you do and also do it in an enviroment other than a contest, so you get choose what races to play and handicap, also a great learning experience, seeing what others plays and why, instead of like on PA contest's you play what they tell you, tougher , yeah maybe, but always great for learning what not to play, lol

Okay more later

Patrick

[Hoof 11]

Funny stuff Ted.
I would be into live play, but i don't see the advantage of using Skype. If you have to type in Skype, you might as well just post in the selections section with screenshots and your opinion, or am i missing something?

Maybe set-up a date in advance and anyone can join in if they are into it. I'm taking a few weeks off but i would be interested in doing this in the new year.

[Ted Craven]

Hoof,

I was kind of hoping someone or several would join me on Skype over the past 2 hours to test this concept, prove or disprove the efficiency of that tool as group sharing medium (voice and screen). But alas, I must sign off now and focus on a the finishing touches of this RDSS udpate.

I thought to try Skype as probably many more people use Skype than TeamViewer, though TV is a snap to download and install and it does provide more tools for control and moderation. Both provide the means to share live computer screens and share audio and video and text, but I don't know of any way to 'moderate' Skype sessions (mute audio, take control of another computer, hand off control to another session member and exit the session), whereas TV does all these and a lot more.

I've done lots of multi-party TV sessions, but no multi-party Skype sessions which is why I wanted to try, to compare.

FWIW, I will hold an open Live Skype session tomorrow (Tuesday Dec 18) at 1pm Eastern for about an hour. Anyone who wants to join then, just Skype me: ted.craven and I'll add you to the group. We can rotate showing our RDSS screens and process for working some races. We can work whatever is running then.

Then another day, we can do a trial of a multi-party TeamViewer live session, perhaps an evening. To prepare for this, folks could download and install TeamViewer 8 (www.teamviewer.com). It will be a test for me to work out logistical issues for January's online live RDSS clinics (including recording the session on a separate computer for posting here).

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Patrick,

Thanks for that Skype FAQ link - I had seen those instructions for setting up a Skype Group, and it seems normal - I have half a dozen folks in a group and could invite them all, if they were online ...

Anyway, perhaps a good test of the group Skype platform meeting facilities would be to try it tomorrow (my suggested 1pm time above). Let's see what the pros and cons are. Like Hoof mentioned, I can't see the benefits of only using text. It will be dynamite to have live screens, live audio, folks can join and leave as they will, and to have it recorded for replay by others. That's what I am shooting for (though as I mentioned, perhaps with TeamViewer). That will be a great learning resource.

Are you available tomorrow at 1pm to try this further, hopefully with a group of us? I hope so, as you have some experience here.

As for your comment earlier that I seem hard to get a hold of - that's news to me, FWIW. Every time someone calls me I pick up the phone, and when they email or PM, I do my best to get back ASAP, especially if the issue is time sensitive.

Call or write me any time! Have folks in your HSH Skype groups call or write any time (Dave does, from time to time).

Cheers,

Ted

[Hoof 11]

Sounds good, i'm free tomorrow so i can test this out with you. I have a Skype account but only on my iPhone, i will install it on my computer tonight. I have TeamViewer already so i'm good to go.

Tuesday at 1 pm it is.

[pktruckdriver]

I workout each day, from 11:30 am , but will definetly finish by 1245, instead of 130, and will join in too.

Now for all the stuff you want to do , TeamViewer may be the way to go, as we have had minor issues in the HSH group, nothing serious, just slow posting updates of previous posts when you signed out, and sometimes with current posts being slow to also, but for the most part it works great.

As for having all of us talking at once, this I've only did thru GOTOMEETING.com.

Agreed , when I really need you , you have been there, just never mind, see ya 1pm EST, right?

patrick

[pktruckdriver]

Okay my 1st 3 picks are at PRX and in my selection's for a 20 race dec cycle.

This is because the postimes are before 1pm, if any one is iterested.

patrick

[Ted Craven]

Folks,

Running just a little behind - setting up to record this experiment from a separate computer than the one running RDSS, so to get smoothest experience :confused:

Should be back up in 10 minutes (~1:15pm EST). Call my Skype ID: ted.craven and we'll gather up to 9 of us and see how this works for group activity.

(I suspect we'll have to establish some 'talking' rules if 9 separate people are in the 'room' at once :eek: )

Ted

[Ted Craven]

OK, that was a short but sweet failure, using Skype. We had 5 people in a conference with audio and screen sharing. Connection cut out almost immediately and repeatedly. My early diagnosis = Skype is not best Live Conference facility for what we want to do.

Rescheduled this for tomorrow Wednesday December 19 at 1pm using TeamViewer (www.teamviewer.com (http://www.teamviewer.com)) - free software. Download it, install it - I will publish a Meeting ID here tomorrow for folks to join. We can do audio via TeamViewer as well. I will put up a few screenshots here to help instruct new users how to do that.

Ted

[Hoof 11]

I find that to be a little odd that it couldn't handle the conference call. Seeing that you can make video calls with Skype, i would think that would be a lot more bandwidth intense, especially with two video feeds at the same time. Maybe the time of day had something to do with it, who knows.

Hey Patrick, how does it work when you Skype with the HSH guys?

[Ted Craven]

My understanding from reading Skype support groups is that video and screen sharing constitute the most bandwidth, then voice, then text chat/SMS as the least bandwidth.

We had 5 participants, no video, 5 screen sharing channels, 4 audio channels (I muted one of mine) - I think that's a lot of bandwidth for Skype.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the HSH Skype group was a text chat only. I'm sure someone can clarify.

Ted

[Hoof 11]

I was watching my network meter while we were talking and it was humming along pretty good, for the small amount of time we were on we used 20 MB. Even when Skype is idle, it's chewing up data.

In the past I have used it to make long distance calls with my cell phone, and to sum it up, it's awful! Flaky connections most of the time with dropped calls, i was never impressed with it.

[Ted Craven]

After we were done, Patrick and I connected using TeamViewer and worked a few races. It was a technically satisfying experience (for 2 people), including making a recording, and I would like to try that again tomorrow.

Here is a link to join a meeting scheduled for 1pm Eastern Time tomorrow Wednesday December 19:


http://go.teamviewer.com/v8/m73174874


This will prompt you to either Run, or Save then Run (depending on your browser) a small program - the TeamViewer Quick Join utility which will connect you to the meeting which begins at 1pm tomorrow.

We will share computer screens running RDSS (ADW screens, and whatever else) and use the built in VOIP (voice over internet) to talk to each other. This will be a test to help see how this tool works for random Live Play sessions which anyone can organize whenever they feel like it. I will record the proceedings and post later (if it is not too disjointed or raucous :eek:). This is also a test to help me understand the moving parts of what I have to do (i.e. what computers, recording issues, meeting moderation issues) to hold the live Online RDSS Clinics I had planned, and which I expect to begin again starting in January.

Thee is room for up to 25 participants. It might be a chaotic event, but let's see what happens - just click the above link to join. Voice will be enabled by default for everyone, so everyone can talk to everyone. For starters, let's try that rather than me control who can speak in the meeting (but which might be a good idea for later, and for the Online RDSS Clinics). If that's too chaotic, we'll work something out.

In a follow up post to this, I will post a few screen shots of the TeamViewer Control Panel widget you will see when you join, and how to enable voice over internet so you can hear what people are saying. Also so you can speak in the meeting if you want to. To speak, you'll either need a plug in microphone or the built-in microphone on your computer to be enabled.

You can also download and install for free the full TeamViewer software if you like, rather than simply use the above Quick Join utility: http://www.TeamViewer.com

Let's see what happens tomorrow!

Ted

BTW, Dick and Gil: Patrick says he cashed on that nice $15 mutuel in PRX Race 3, which came up on top in RDSS but which we were too confused by what we were trying to do to capitalize on!

[Hoof 11]

Nice work Patrick! On a side note.... i was not aware that Patrick played right wing for the Chicago Black Hawks, i know i know, it's probably not the first time you have herd that.

See you gents tomorrow.

[pktruckdriver]

My understanding from reading Skype support groups is that video and screen sharing constitute the most bandwidth, then voice, then text chat/SMS as the least bandwidth.

We had 5 participants, no video, 5 screen sharing channels, 4 audio channels (I muted one of mine) - I think that's a lot of bandwidth for Skype.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the HSH Skype group was a text chat only. I'm sure someone can clarify.

Ted

Yes Ted , HSH groups are Type Only,

Teamviewer may be what we need, great choice Ted, as always.

HSH , uses Goto Meeting, very similar to Teamviewer for multi gatherings of voice and screen sharings, both seem more capapble than Skype.

patrick

What Track , I think Tampa ???

[Ted Craven]

TAM, GP, FG -whatever. All are good for me.

Ted

[Ted Craven]

For anyone interested in joining our test today at 1pm Eastern of Live Play using TeamViewer, here are some instructions:

Join the meeting by clicking on this link: http://go.teamviewer.com/v8/m73174874

Your browser will prompt you to either Run, or Save then Run (depending on your browser) the TeamViewer connection utility. If your Security software warns you about the file you are running or downloading, just accept it and let it run or download.

You will automatically be taken to the meeting room. If the meeting has not yet started, you will get a waiting page, otherwise you will simply join the meeting in progress.

A TeamViewer Control Panel will appear on the right side of your screen.

To hear the meeting audio, click the 'headphones' icon and the Voice over IP section in the Control Panel will expand.

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If you want to speak in the meeting, click on the microphone icon in that section to un-mute it. You may need to check your audio settings to make sure you have the correct microphone and speakers identified for TeamViewer to use. Click the 'gear' icon at the right side of the Voice over IP section.

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If you can't hear or can't speak (i.e. the group seems to not hear you), you can send a text chat message and I'll try to respond. To chat, click the 'chat icon' at the top, which opens the Chat section of the Control Panel, then type a message.

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FWIW, I recommend folks do not enable video for this test session - it eats up a certain amount of bandwidth which I'd prefer we reserve for audio and screen sharing.

I will use my screen to display RDSS and whatever else we need, and perhaps hand the controls over to other presenters if they wish to make points from their own screens.

I'd like to participate for about an hour and see what happens.

Again, this is just a test session today and we may or may not get much useful handicapping or betting done. But it might be a useful dry run for folks to do Live Sessions like this whenever they want, and it will help me better understand how to set up online RDSS Learning sessions in the near future.

Good luck to us - see, and hear, you all this afternoon!

Ted

[Ted Craven]

If anyone has any problems connecting, you can also post them here and someone will try to help you. After the meeting is done, any helpful suggestions to make it easier for people to connect in the future can also be posted here.

People may also want to consider downloading and installing the full version of TeamViewer for future meetings and for remote tech support for RDSS.

Ted

[JimG]

I can't find my headphones with microphone this morning and was hoping to check it out. Will I be able to type if I have anything to say or is it voice only?

Jim

PS...Never mind you answered my question already.

[Bill V.]

Hi Ted

Not for nothing but is 1:00 Pm EST on a weekday
very good for the 9-5 working crowd ?

Just saying

Bill

[barb craven]

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This is all I'm getting. No controls on the side to adjust. I joined TV a couple of years ago and spent considerable time last night trying to sign in. It doesn't recognize my ID, even though I had them sent me a new one which I confirmed via an email they subsequently sent me. I don't know what will happen when the meeting starts. It does show that I have joined.

[Ted Craven]

Hi Ted

Not for nothing but is 1:00 Pm EST on a weekday
very good for the 9-5 working crowd ?

Just saying

Bill

Bill,

It's a TEST. I need to find out how to manage a group meeting, how to explain to people how to get connected, how to do audio, how I record it, how to set up my own computers to make it work, etc. If handicapping gets done as well - that's a bonus.

You could start your own meeting later today or tonight if you like for further handicapping. Anybody can, then invite who they like, or publish an invitation here.

I am unavailable tonight, but we can certainly do evenings later.

Please join in if you can!

Ted

[Ted Craven]

32902
This is all I'm getting. No controls on the side to adjust. I joined TV a couple of years ago and spent considerable time last night trying to sign in. It doesn't recognize my ID, even though I had them sent me a new one which I confirmed via an email they subsequently sent me. I don't know what will happen when the meeting starts. It does show that I have joined.

Mum,

The meeting hasn't started yet. When it does (1pm Eastern) you will be connected when you login and see the TeamViewer Control Panel as described above.

Ted

[barb craven]

okay

[partsnut]

Hi Barb,

Try this.:D

[lsosa54]

Ted: Popped in for a few minutes to test. Audio was clear and strong. Video was clear. Chat box worked well. I guess the issue was your computer slowing down.

I think Dave S has used Go To Meeting for his public seminars and that doesn't seem to slow down. He probably has multiple computers, however.

The paid version of Team Viewer might be meant for these types of calls.

[JimG]

Thanks for hosting Ted. I enjoyed stopping by and seeing all that were there. Seems like a nice way for small groups to play the races together. Good teaching tool as well.

Jim

[Ted Craven]

Ted: Popped in for a few minutes to test. Audio was clear and strong. Video was clear. Chat box worked well. I guess the issue was your computer slowing down.

I think Dave S has used Go To Meeting for his public seminars and that doesn't seem to slow down. He probably has multiple computers, however.

The paid version of Team Viewer might be meant for these types of calls.

Lou, Nice to see you, if not hear you! When I stopped the video recording, everything went back to normal - nice and peppy. SO I learned that I should record off a different computer than the one hosting the meeting and running RDSS. I'm sure Dave S does something like that. Not sure if there are extra efficiencies from the paid version of TV, but if this seems like a way to go, I'll investigate.

I made one dutched exacta bet in a short odds field (TAM 4) and made 80% on my wager - not bad ... !

cheers,

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Thanks for hosting Ted. I enjoyed stopping by and seeing all that were there. Seems like a nice way for small groups to play the races together. Good teaching tool as well.

Jim

Nice to talk to you too. It was a bit chaotic for starters, but once we got the mike's and chat thing worked out, it was smoother. 10 people seems doable, and this can accommodate 25, I think.

One option I"ll test another time, in preparation for future more formal teaching sessions for newcomers, is perhaps mute everyone for starters then if anyone wants to speak, they can ask and I'll open their mike. Keeps the background din and reverb down to the traffic outside my own window (or the moose ...)

Any other thoughts on organizational issues?

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Folks, FWIW, the meeting is still going on so anyone can still join in. Looks like GP 5 is under review at the moment. I gave control of the meeting over to Patrick K, and 7 people are onboard at the moment. I'm working on other things now.

Mosey on over: http://go.teamviewer.com/v8/m73174874

[JimG]

One option I"ll test another time, in preparation for future more formal teaching sessions for newcomers, is perhaps mute everyone for starters then if anyone wants to speak, they can ask and I'll open their mike. Keeps the background din and reverb down to the traffic outside my own window (or the moose ...)

Any other thoughts on organizational issues?

Ted

Probably a good idea. I apologize if background noise was happening on my end. I would also like to get the proper headphones for next time. Guess I will add that to the Christmas list. Re: organizational issues, I'll think about that and send you an email or respond here later.

Jim

[Bill V.]

Ted

I think your presentation of the race was excellent aand good job winning
the exacta.

I found it very hard to follow along with the open mikes

I used the text box and you seemed to be able to answer me
and change the screen tabs all while keeping the flow of your
presentation , When too many people are talking and you can't see who is
speaking its very muddy, Maybe a text question or request is a better
option and opening only 1 mike at a time would be better

It was a good race discussion good work moving forward
Bill

[Ted Craven]

Thanks Bill, and glad you joined us. That text thing seemed to work, you're right - the Organizer just has to keep an eye on it. It will be a different style of meeting if the Organizer controls who can speak and does most of the talking him/herself - but in the end it's perhaps more coherent.

Maybe if you run a meeting, you can try it that way. I will organize another one myself as soon as I consolidate all the feedback from this one, check the recording and finish the RDSS update. This weekend?

Amazing stuff to be able to exacta dutch bet the 3 favourites top and bottom (and add a 4th 20-1 horse on bottom) and make an 84% return.

Ted

[Ted Craven]

For anyone who joined us in the Live meeting today and saw me or Patrick use the AmWest dutching tool (Win, DD, Exacta pools) and would like more info, first check out the geographical restrictions here: http://www.sartinmethodology.com/rebate_info then write or call me and I'll do a deeper demo.

If you are limited by the state you live in, still give me a call ...

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Partsnut,

Good to talk to you finally today before the meeting started. It's a stressful time in your household right now, I know, and you have my - and all of our empathy and best wishes. I hope your wife gets all the best health care and support she deserves. I know it's the main thing you focus on right now, and I wish you all the love in the world.

And thanks for that analysis you did on Tampa Race 1!

yours,

Ted

[Ted Craven]

FWIW, here are the individual wagers created by the Dutching tool, along with the Exacta grid from TAM Race 4 today. The exacta payout was the lowest one, but the $20 bet returned for 2 tickets at $18.40 apiece, betting 4 horses in total (3 on top, 4 underneath).

As I mentioned, I was playing toward the 20-1 #3 horse in the place position and would happily have accepted a partial loss for the opportunity to cash with that. As it was, the other 3 horses bet were the top 3 favourites. Not a bad way to capitalize on the amount of apparently chalky races we often see ...

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[Hoof 11]

That was really cool, i thoroughly enjoyed that.

I couldn't get my headphones to work for some strange reason, but the mic worked. I had to run the audio through my speakers so i couldn't use the mic, that would have caused feedback. I recommend anyone using TV to use headphones with a mic, or you will get feedback or a echo affect from your speakers.

All in all TeamViewer worked really well for meetings, we were on for 2 hours and 17 minutes and used 195 MB of data on my end. I imagine the host would end up using a lot more data than that.

It would be good next time to pick a track in advance, i can't handicap in between races, not enough time to thoroughly go through the races. I look forward to the next time, it was interesting hearing all the perspectives.

[Ted Craven]

Gil,

On your TV Control Panel, the Voice over IP section, open the Config 'gear' icon at the right edge, the Audio settings - then check your speaker settings. It could be the mute box was checked, or the speaker hardware chosen in the dropdown list was a different speaker than what you were listening to. It turned out that was one of Mum's initial problems.

Looking forward to the next one!

Ted

[Hoof 11]

No, i wen't through every setting, it was kind of strange, i could get the test sound to work through the headphones but i couldn't hear you speak. It worked fine on Skype yesterday, but not today. I have so many audio inputs going into my PC it gets a little complex on my end, i will play around with it and figure it out.

[barb craven]

Bill (Parsnut)Thanks or your input, but I'd tried that several times. (I had problems with both my mic and speakers at first that couldn't be resolved even when Ted took control,) but I discovered after Ted started the meeting and I was just listening, that I didn't have the latest version of TV, so I downloaded that and everything worked from there on in. I was then able to join in. If anyone else was having trouble I would suggest they check and make sure they have TV8.
It was very enjoyable, if a bit chaotic in the beginning. I agree with Ted, the muting of mics helped. I also would have to agree with Hoof about knowing in advance what races we would be looking at so as to get some lines picked ahead of time. It would be easier to agree with or ask questions about the lines chosen as we do them as a group.
On a more sobering note, I was sorry to hear about your wife's troubles Bill. My thoughts and prayers go out to you and her as I know everyone on this Board do. You both will be on my mind in the coming days. Be sure to keep us posted.

[Hoof 11]

Probably a good idea. I apologize if background noise was happening on my end. I would also like to get the proper headphones for next time. Guess I will add that to the Christmas list. Re: organizational issues, I'll think about that and send you an email or respond here later.

Jim
Hey Jim

Plantronics Audio 326 Stereo Headset

Very inexpensive and the mic has excellent sound quality with noise cancellation.
The headphones sound very good as well.

[JimG]

Hey Jim

Plantronics Audio 326 Stereo Headset

Very inexpensive and the mic has excellent sound quality with noise cancellation.
The headphones sound very good as well.

Thanks for the tip. I'll check them out.

Jim

[partsnut]

Yesterdays session was a lot of fun and really enjoyed it.

I believe this feature has many uses. One of the most important, in my humble opinion, is for Ted to familiarize potential RDSS users and those that have subscribed with the programs features. These features should be explained Here is where all questions about specific features can be addressed and possibly answered. What is important and what is not and how an individual feature was derived.

I am somewhat familiar with RDSS but frankly and honestly speaking, I have gotten a little confused with some of the instructional posts. I also believe that too much information might lead to misinformation. This may be the case, especially, when they don't conform to an individual users way of thinking. What's right for you may not be right for me. There are many schools of thought when it comes to horse racing. There is no steadfast rules that a user has to focus on. Some will incorrectly tell you otherwise and will try to impose their thinking on you.
Use whatever works for you.
When you follow the rules, you follow the herd or crowd.
What will set you apart from the losing majority (the crowd)?

There are quite a few questions I would like to ask. Hopefully,Ted will use this feature as a great way to explain and address what certain features mean and why and how to use them.

To sum it all up, I believe RDSS is a great piece of software but some of the rules set down by others need to be addressed. I believe you can win with RDSS if you find a method of use that works for you. This can happen if you fully understand the capabilities of what you are using and have been given.

[Ted Craven]

Partsnut,

Well put, your points above. And I take to heart your advice that this kind of interactive operational, what to speak 'best-practices' tour of RDSS is a big kick-start to using it happily and profitable. (It's part of why I am moving forward to do this online live collaboration/teaching- not only by me, but to demonstrate how others can do it for themselves).

An update to the software is a day away (or so). At least, I will make a short video tour of the NEW items (or bug fixes), and also schedule an interactive session demoing them and answering questions.

Then, my goal for the new year is to hold more of these sessions, and also make more short videos documenting usage of the various components. Of course, others who know how can also make such videos and post them, also use that format to pose questions or show in detail a successful method or spot play they care to share.

And on the topic of 'to each their own' - and re Tampa R4 yesterday which we worked collectively: while I believe there was a general consensus on the primary Win Contenders in that race, the general opinion (at 2 MTP) was that there was no value so no bet - in the Win pool. Despite that, we managed to find value in a dutched exacta pool wager, using only the favourites plus one long shot underneath, as it turned out.

So while many people would not have chosen to bet that race at all due either to too many low odds horses, or too many unknowns (and I notice FTL has just posted an analysis and opinion on that very race in the *TEACHING Forum), my style (and not necessarily everyone's) is to seek some pool in which to capitalize the effort spent analysing the race (of course while always trying to retain the skeptical eye of 'should I ultimately be passing this race' as the final choice).

And I think it is this very possibility of diversity of analysis approaches and betting decision approaches which permits a tool shared by many to none-the-less not inevitably drive prices down: the tool itself does not make choices about what degree of uncertainty the user will accept, nor which pools to invest in, nor which cross-section of races or tracks to develop proficiency in and base one's longer-term betting records on. All of this diversity of choice keeps the 'difference of opinion' engine going, which as we know - is what makes a horse race (at least according to Mark Twain :))

Ted.

[chuckg]

Yes, an excellent online liveplay (work) session. New users can benefit by seeing that there are a number of different sorts that will show the winner and place horse among the top 5 contenders. Hearing and reading the participants' discussion about wich horse to bet and why after the contenders and pacelines have been selected is invaluable. That is where money is made or not made. Shoeless started a thread on that subject a day or two ago. How to bet a race once you have the readout? That exacta dutching tool that Patrick and Ted had may be the best application of the final few Follow-Ups where wagercapping off the BL/BL screen was the advised practice. I would tune in again just to see it in action.

Overall it was a great idea to work races live with teamshare.

[Ted Craven]

Shoeless started a thread on that subject a day or two ago. How to bet a race once you have the readout? That exacta dutching tool that Patrick and Ted had may be the best application of the final few Follow-Ups where wagercapping off the BL/BL screen was the advised practice. I would tune in again just to see it in action.


Chuck,

I will do a separate session after I get this RDSS update out focusing on betting execution, and include more demos of the ADW I use and the dutching and conditional wagering tools I use - specifically to see how to actualize what we have come to refer to as 'wagercapping'.

Ted

[lenabugg]

Ted,
I really like the software but I'M Confused as well with all the info.that is posted as well ,as somewhat of a person thats new to racing, picking the right pace line seem to be the big problem on the bata sysem would it be possible you could have a pick that would do the race paceline for the surface and distance of that race,I have done many races and looked at the results and found that the race was not hit because of picking the wrong line.or is that asking to much or is that the fact Im just not sharp enough.

[SCSAYS]

lenabugg- On the RDSS desktop screen located between NewPace and the horse saddle numbers is a RED diamond shape. Right click on the diamond and it offers you seven different paceline strategies for all horses or a single horse.

[lenabugg]

Thank you, On 12-12-12 AQU. 3RD RACE GRITTY WON THE RACE WAS OR IS THERE SOMEWAY YOU COULD HAVE PICK it ?

[partsnut]

Ted,
I really like the software but I'M Confused as well with all the info.that is posted as well ,as somewhat of a person thats new to racing, picking the right pace line seem to be the big problem on the bata sysem would it be possible you could have a pick that would do the race paceline for the surface and distance of that race,I have done many races and looked at the results and found that the race was not hit because of picking the wrong line.or is that asking to much or is that the fact Im just not sharp enough.

Lenabugg: Don't put yourself down. Beating the game is not easy. Most people are losers.
It takes lots of discipline, patience and hard work to become a winner.

The problem with picking single pace lines are that they are not truly representative of what a horses capabilities are under specific conditions and circumstances. Picking pace lines in my opinion, are very subjective and controversial. In my opinion, if you must use pace line selection in your handicapping process then it is best to ascertain whether a specific horse can qualify and keep up with the projected pace of a given race. As Doc Sartin expressed in his articles in American Turf Monthly, look at the last 3 lines in a horses past performance and look for the line that best measures up to this race at hand. Use no line where a horse finished more then 5 3/4 behind the winner.

Now with RDSS you might want to try and use the adjusted speed number for the pace line that best fits the conditions of the race at hand. Do this for each horse in the race and pass the horses that do not qualify and use them as secondary contenders. I am reasonably certain that you will come up with the representative contenders.

Once you are satisfied that you have the contenders ( Top 4 or 5 ) for this race you will then have to try and pick the winner of the race. Some people go with 2 win horses, I go with one. I normally let the projected pace dictate my decision. Whether the horse that I land on is playable is another story. I use a horses running style to dictate to me what odds would be acceptable. If you choose to play exactas, which I don't choose to do, you might want to go with the Am Wager tool that Ted himself uses.
It looks pretty good. Ted can best explain this to you.

From what I see and am led to believe, Ted will do everything in his power to make you a winner. I feel he is a very sincere and very nice person that is willing to help you. Follow his videos and partake in the upcoming internet help session conferences where you can ask lots of questions.
I'm sure Ted will announce this shortly.

[Ted Craven]

Thank you, On 12-12-12 AQU. 3RD RACE GRITTY WON THE RACE WAS OR IS THERE SOMEWAY YOU COULD HAVE PICK it ?

Lenabugg,

AQU Dec 12, Race 3 is a race you should not have been playing - PERIOD. From an original field of 8, 5 horses were scratched leaving 3 (THREE :eek:) runners! NEVER PLAY A RACE WITH THREE RUNNERS. All these 2 year olds had between 1 and 3 races lifetime, so scant info to go on even with no scratches. One of the 3 runners (#3) was a non-contender off its last race. The remaining 2 horses' odds were EVEN and 4/5. NO POINT IN THINKING ABOUT THAT RACE!

Please pick another race, and make that post in another Thread, to keep this thread vaguely on the topic of the Live Play session idea and its ramifications.

Thanks.

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Ted,
I really like the software but I'M Confused as well with all the info.that is posted as well ,as somewhat of a person thats new to racing, picking the right pace line seem to be the big problem on the bata sysem would it be possible you could have a pick that would do the race paceline for the surface and distance of that race,

lenabugg- On the RDSS desktop screen located between NewPace and the horse saddle numbers is a RED diamond shape. Right click on the diamond and it offers you seven different paceline strategies for all horses or a single horse.

Lenabugg,

In addition to the advice of SCSAYS, I suggest you use the 2nd Paceline Selection Strategy on that list: Best of Last Three lines Comparable (i.e. comparable surface, comparable distance structure) based on the Perceptor rating.

This does a good job for you of choosing recent lines (from last 3) on a similar surface (if possible) and in similar distance structure if possible (i.e. sprints for today's sprint, routes for today's route race). You must still go over the program's line selections and see if they make sense. But it works a remarkable amount of the time, though there are caveats once you get the hang of it and some experience under your belt.

I have done many races and looked at the results and found that the race was not hit because of picking the wrong line.or is that asking to much or is that the fact Im just not sharp enough.

I have answered this question for you more times than I can remember now, though I will answer it once again. The answer is: no - it is NOT asking too much!! That's what the whole website exists for! We invite you to pick specific races that you lost (your above pick of AQU Dec 12 Race 3 was a start, though not a race anyone should analyse, so let's try a different one).

Please click on the following link: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8889 and go to the special area I set up for you (Assistance for Lenabugg), and name another race you worked on where you picked the wrong pacelines. People will join you there and help you figure out how to pick better lines and win more races. Pick a race with at least 7 runners, and let's start with at least 3 YO horses.

See you there, really!

Also, after Christmas is over, before New Years, let's connect with this Live Discussion meeting tool, and you and I will work several races of YOUR CHOOSING together. I will help you understand RDSS2 better, and give some pointers on paceline selection, contender identification and betting approach (at least according to me ...). How about one of Dec 28, 29 or 30? You can respond here or write me privately.

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

Ted

[lone speed]

lenabugg...

As Partsnut and Ted Craven have eloquently wrote,there are people who are more than willing to help you. But.....yes it does come with a caveat....

First and foremost, you must change your mindset. As Buddy Alvarado, a winning horseplayer of over $250K a year, once said....find out who the experts are and you do the opposite....Basically, you must empty all your horseplayer saying... and refresh....Start with a mindset that you indeed want to learn and to win in this endeavor...it will not be easy and it might take years...yes ....years, but do not give up and you model successful patterns and follow people who choose to seek different tools to aid themselves and move beyond the mass....You will not be successful by association...just because you are part of this website and you have RDSS program does not mean you will win...Just because you skimed the postings and the races posted will not translate a novice into a winner...

You transform by doing, by asking, by prodding, by working races and understanding why the winner was in the top two or seek reasons that you did not used the tools correctly....you internalize successful patterns and habits...Everyone learns differently and at different rates.....

We have a library of Doc Sartin's Follow Ups....did you read any?? Follow Bill V. and For The Lead's paceline methods and reasonings for the races that they post. Rework the same races on your own and understand their steps..This will shorten your learning curve....

Remember, the Sartin Methodology was started because Doc Sartin took a group of truckers and problem gamblers into his group. Instead of convincing this group to abstain from horse racing, Sartin told them that the solution to losing from gambling at the parimutuel windows was winning.....Later,this group attracted many great minds and ideas and what transpired was The Sartin Methodology....Ted Craven carries the modern day torch with the full blessing from the Doc himself, Howard Garland Sartin....

I wish you good skills on your journey but you must make the commitment to learn and you must tune out the naysayers and doomsayers as you seek enlightenment towards your goals and your ambitions.....Find your comfort zone and internalize all or part of the Sartin Methodology....

Good Luck..:)

[Ted Craven]

I am somewhat familiar with RDSS but frankly and honestly speaking, I have gotten a little confused with some of the instructional posts. I also believe that too much information might lead to misinformation. This may be the case, especially, when they don't conform to an individual users way of thinking. What's right for you may not be right for me. There are many schools of thought when it comes to horse racing. There is no steadfast rules that a user has to focus on. Some will incorrectly tell you otherwise and will try to impose their thinking on you.
Use whatever works for you.
When you follow the rules, you follow the herd or crowd.
What will set you apart from the losing majority (the crowd)?


Just to clarify my views re the Teaching that is going on in the *TEACHING Forum (http://paceandcap.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=116), it's a lot easier to grasp what different people are saying (FTL, Bill V, Lonespeed) if you actually HAVE RDSS to use and to follow along with (and I have provided at last one free data file to help folks do just that, and will continue to, from time to time). Are there many different ways to analyse a horse-race? Damn right, and a good thing too - that's where all the divergence of opinion comes from, and thus whatever good mutuels still available. And each person, who may none-the-less have a long standing and successful, even profitable, grasp of the Methodology - each person will 'teach' their understanding and guidelines a little differently. I can see the truth in every post in that Teaching Forum, though I plainly instruct people myself a little differently sometimes.

To that extent, I agree that one has to try different things, evaluate the success or lack thereof for themselves, even based on their own learning style or risk tolerance, and not blindly accept the teachings of others. BUT - for those starting out, or who think there may be something valuable to the Methodology concepts and RDSS as a tool to improve their existing game - you could do a lot worse than to follow very carefully the examples and detailed discussions of those currently sharing their teaching in that particular Forum, and I mean: Bill V, FTL and Lonespeed in particular.

Otherwise, we could just say: there are no rules, everyone has their own opinions which may not be correct, you're on your own. Which is NOT what we're saying. Start off by listening and studying the examples of those who make sense. As you again more confidence, start analysing your results more carefully and evolve your own style until it starts to become profitable for you.

If anyone wants to use RDSS to follow along with the instructional aspects of this website - just ask (or renew your subscription).

cheers,

Ted

[lenabugg]

again I would like to thank partnuts and ted for your replys. I will use the info from you both I would be happy to get my money back that I payed for the software.LOL.

Thanks Again.