contest race

[rmath]

Could any one explain the trackmaster SR and DTV for this horse s last race.

33382

[pktruckdriver]

Look at the 3 horse and the winner the 9 horse, how can they be so different in adjusted speed rating, they should be closer it looks like, why so big a difference? I am totally confused, whe did not have the 10 or 9, but should we have?

[rmath]

The horse I posted above ran 2nd but I was not able to get him any higher than 6th on vdc.

[pktruckdriver]

The DTV is what we are confused about, one has 105 -4 and 90 , yet the 9 horse is 112 -3 76 ,

1st number raw speed rating

2nd number is DTV

3rd number adjusted speed rating


why so big a difference , please


I think we should have had the 9 or 10, no?

[pktruckdriver]

1 more thing what is Net Speed rating, all about? Should it be used to find winners, is it reliable? tHANK YOU

[Bill V.]

Patrick The big difference in adjusted speed ratings probably has something to do with the 12.0 Turf marathon distance adjusted to todays 8.5 distance
The 3 is from the same 8.5 distance but a dirt/poly line
In the Sartin Adjusted Speed rating scales turf speed ratings are almost always faster than dirt (poly) Doc mentions this in the video seminar tapes.

The Trackmaster speed ratings also have a class adjustment. here you are comparing a line from a grade 2 race to a 125000 restricted stakes race.

About the race
I would not have had the winner I have no recent comparable line to use and the horse is 20/1 ML a throw out in almost every race
This is a graded stakes with weight alllowance for the weaker horses.
The winner carried the high weight ! 122 lbs.


150000 Grade 2 stakes weight allowance for proformance

H1 P2 No recent turf form at a comp distance 4-12 and 2-9 APV 65 cr 2.43
H2 P4 Line 1 8-30 and 5-11 APV 53 CR 4.90
H3 E7 No recent Turf form 7-15 and 3-9 APV 91 CR13.15
H5 EP3 Line 1 5-22 and 1-13 APV 98 CR 4.84
H6 NF No recent turf form 20/1 Ml 3-13 and 1-6 APV 68 CR3.75
H7 SP1 no recent turf form 4-13 and 4-13 APV 57 CR 3.56
H8 E/EP Line 1 6-11 and 5-9 APV66 CR 4.53
H9 S1 No comparable recent turf 20/1 4-19 and 3-8 APV36 CR1.93
H10 E/EP Line 1 3-9 and 3-7 APV49 CR 3.13
H11 EP4 Line 2 last first try at GP 5-16 and 2-7 APV39 CR 3.05
33388
33386

33387

[pktruckdriver]

Okay, thanks, BUT... Net Speed rating, and why a 61 DTV, also I did not noticed he was the only horse with high weights.

Yet his net speed rating makess him tops, could I read something about this, or prior post, I got run to hospital, be back later, sorry.

[Bill V.]

2 things

1 is this a "Teaching" thread type post or would have it just as
well been put down in the RDSS forum
As basically its all going to come down to eventually Ted coming on and explaining the calculations of the speed ratings the DTV the ITV, adjustments
of "Sartin Downs" but even If you "learn" about how a rdss readout is
caluculated or as you seem to be questioning here "out of whack" will it teach
or sooth ?

So are you saying you lost this race because RDSS gave you a
misrepresentative speed rating and DTV ?
If so you have fallen into a hazard of using RDSS as the sole
opinion of the race.

also
Were do you see a 61 DTV ? I'm lost there please clarify
Bill

[pktruckdriver]

2 things

1 is this a "Teaching" thread type post or would have it just as
well been put down in the RDSS forum
As basically its all going to come down to eventually Ted coming on and explaining the calculations of the speed ratings the DTV the ITV, adjustments
of "Sartin Downs" but even If you "learn" about how a rdss readout is
caluculated or as you seem to be questioning here "out of whack" will it teach
or sooth ?

So are you saying you lost this race because RDSS gave you a
misrepresentative speed rating and DTV ?
If so you have fallen into a hazard of using RDSS as the sole
opinion of the race.

also
Were do you see a 61 DTV ? I'm lost there please clarify
Bill

2-3 or things

1st. Look at horse 10, line 1 and go over to DTV a 61, did you not read the post, I wrote it there and explained my reasons for asking about it.

2nd Did think RDSS cost me this race, are you kidding me, blaming RDSS for losing this race is ridiculous, the program is fine, but learning more of what the numbers are and why they are there , is that not what teaching is about, shsowing others what this and that means, or am I wrong , about that? Also I did not start this thread, just road along, because I too have questions, which still have not been answered.

3rd. Could I have had this horse, maybe, I did not try Match Up, I did not find out why this horse only had extra weights, why this horse had a "Net Speed Ratinf " of 115, and ran to it, am I wrong there too, no, just wondering for me and others who may also wonder but do not ask, and maybe next time we have this horse, again, this teaches , doesw it not?

4th Speed rating's, there are so many , and why is that, really?

A. muddy tracks or soft turf tracks, I see maybe being slower than faast and hard tracks, so a DTV is added, is this kindaa the concept, if not please elaborate more so I could truly understand, thank you.

Now why is "Net Speed Rating", on the adjusted screen, not realy highlighted or even used to cap, when I think that is the number we need to use more, as it is the Net adjusted, and then the "ADJUSTED SR, where exactly does it come from, and why is it different from the Net, .

5th. which SR has the most weight , or best for RDSS use, I know this question is too big to really ask, as the answer could take a lot of exThere are three key qualities in this definition that we need to consider when selecting a mentor.
A mentor is…
1. “experienced” – Has practical knowledge gained through trial and application, and which is
evident in his own life. One who is skilled, expert, wise, capable, and thoroughly conversant
with his subject matter.
2. “trusted” – Has unquestionable integrity and honesty, and shares his expertise with the
intent of benefiting others. One in whom you feel total trust and confidence.
3. “prudent” – Has the quality of giving advice with proper restraint and caution, and does not
boast or exaggerates the facts. One who tells it “as it really is.”
In summary, a true mentor is a person that can be trusted in all aspects of life. Mentors know
what they are talking about from both the things they have studied and, more importantly, from
applying what they have learned in their own lives. THEY WALK THE TALK! Plus—and this is
very important—their motivation is pure: their sole purpose for sharing what they know is to help
others become the best they can be and to fulfill their divine potential explaining , some maybe too tecchnical for my mind to grasp, then maybe not.

BUT IF MY POSTING IS OFFENDING YOU BILL, then I can cease and try to figure things out , and most likely lose more than I should, but then I will be out of the forum's , let me know, I will gladly be quiet, and , drift away unto the sunset.

Take care
Patrick

[lone speed]

2-3 or things

1st. Look at horse 10, line 1 and go over to DTV a 61, did you not read the post, I wrote it there and explained my reasons for asking about it.

2nd Did think RDSS cost me this race, are you kidding me, blaming RDSS for losing this race is ridiculous, the program is fine, but learning more of what the numbers are and why they are there , is that not what teaching is about, shsowing others what this and that means, or am I wrong , about that? Also I did not start this thread, just road along, because I too have questions, which still have not been answered.

3rd. Could I have had this horse, maybe, I did not try Match Up, I did not find out why this horse only had extra weights, why this horse had a "Net Speed Ratinf " of 115, and ran to it, am I wrong there too, no, just wondering for me and others who may also wonder but do not ask, and maybe next time we have this horse, again, this teaches , doesw it not?

4th Speed rating's, there are so many , and why is that, really?

A. muddy tracks or soft turf tracks, I see maybe being slower than faast and hard tracks, so a DTV is added, is this kindaa the concept, if not please elaborate more so I could truly understand, thank you.

Now why is "Net Speed Rating", on the adjusted screen, not realy highlighted or even used to cap, when I think that is the number we need to use more, as it is the Net adjusted, and then the "ADJUSTED SR, where exactly does it come from, and why is it different from the Net, .

5th. which SR has the most weight , or best for RDSS use, I know this question is too big to really ask, as the answer could take a lot of exThere are three key qualities in this definition that we need to consider when selecting a mentor.
A mentor is…
1. “experienced” – Has practical knowledge gained through trial and application, and which is
evident in his own life. One who is skilled, expert, wise, capable, and thoroughly conversant
with his subject matter.
2. “trusted” – Has unquestionable integrity and honesty, and shares his expertise with the
intent of benefiting others. One in whom you feel total trust and confidence.
3. “prudent” – Has the quality of giving advice with proper restraint and caution, and does not
boast or exaggerates the facts. One who tells it “as it really is.”
In summary, a true mentor is a person that can be trusted in all aspects of life. Mentors know
what they are talking about from both the things they have studied and, more importantly, from
applying what they have learned in their own lives. THEY WALK THE TALK! Plus—and this is
very important—their motivation is pure: their sole purpose for sharing what they know is to help
others become the best they can be and to fulfill their divine potential explaining , some maybe too tecchnical for my mind to grasp, then maybe not.

BUT IF MY POSTING IS OFFENDING YOU BILL, then I can cease and try to figure things out , and most likely lose more than I should, but then I will be out of the forum's , let me know, I will gladly be quiet, and , drift away unto the sunset.

Take care
Patrick


Patrick...those are great questions and valid points that you made...I interpret Bill's post as that he was truly trying to find out the intent of your questions...,to me they were not offensive, please don't take it any other way....

Whenever, a huge longshot wins, I too, would like to find out if any of the Sartin programs would have gotten the winners.....Favorites are a given, but longshots are helpful in preventing extended losing steaks and they are ego boosters....

I haven't looked in depth of this race, but just glancing at the longshot winner, it looks like the 3rd or 4th paceline back looked strong....Patrick, can you put those lines into Rdss and let's review this race...

[lone speed]

Let's see if those lines are ranked #1 or #2 Lot as this is a turf race as sustain fractions dominate.....:)

[Bill V.]

I need you to show me or tell me were you got the 61 from

I still am having trouble seeing a 61 DTV

Thanks
Bill

[lone speed]

Patrick.....

Upon further reviews of Mucho Mas Mucho pps, I am most interested in the 5th paceline back...I have no qualms about going for the power line as that line looks strong especially if there are some early speedballs to set some decent quick early fractions........last paceline is already strong since he closed on a fast 24 last fraction, so the horse is in shape after the layoff...but it s hard to evaluate that last paceline in todays matchup....10 and 12 furlongs races are hard to evaluate in Sartin' s programs......

Looking forward to your Rdss readouts with those pacelines included....sometimes, I have no problems entering two or even three pacelines for a contender that I want to evaluate...

[pktruckdriver]

I need you to show me or tell me were you got the 61 from

I still am having trouble seeing a 61 DTV

Thanks
Bill

Not surprised, look again at line 1 horse 10, the 2nd place horse in this.


Now look at the Net SR for the winner 115

[Bill V.]

Thanks Patrick

although I'm still mixed up.

Patrick I'm still confused as to what your either asking or teaching ?

Your showing the original paceline for horse 10
On Dec 15 2012 it ran at GP and the DTV for that race
according equibase/trackmaster was a DTV of 61

Then your showing the Adjusted PP line for horse 9
who ran on November 24 at CRC
On that day at that track the DTV was -3

what is your question ?
Thanks
Bill

[Rverge]

well here is my 1.2 cents on this race. watched the replay. the spilts are 46.99
110.5. the profile times and final times are slower. also notice the Bl's for the last 3-4 races and view #9s breaks far back from the field. watch the replay 9 is last or almost last won running in the middle of the track. fast pace and a clean trip set it up for the closer. it happens. i didn't have the horse, and not many others as viewed by the payout.
MLcookie
ps the profile times where 48.9 113.17 143.70

[Ted Craven]

Patrick, Bill, everyone,

I will look at this race and give my 1.2 cents as well ;) I won't get time until tomorrow night though.

cheers,

Ted

[Hoof 11]

Here is my take on that race (GP-10). You would have had to step out of the box on this one, the methodology would never point to this outcome, in my opinion. Take this for what it’s worth, if you agree or disagree, that’s your prerogative.

9 – Mucho Mas Macho.

We have ten lines to judge this horse on what it has the ability to do, and the first thing i look at is the Total Energy Rating. At best he ran a 162.7 at this distance and surface, the 2,3,5,7 and 8, all had the ability to run a 165 to 167 at the same distance and surface, the question today is, are they in form to put up those numbers today? On the surface the 9 looked to be an early toss, but there are a few angles telling me not so fast. Let’s look at what the horse does after a lay-off (7th line back), he generally comes out and runs a 75 adjusted speed rating (just like his last start before today), the next start out he improves to a 78, albeit on dirt. So that tells me he will improve on his last start (line 1), and he will be in top form today. Is that enough to compete with days runners? The answer is NO. But there was a difference in his last start, they stretched him out to a mile and a half, something he had never done. It was the same conditions as today, and on the same surface, and he finished a very respectable second, only 1.8 lengths back.

Now we come to one of my favorite angles, The Cutback. He generally runs every 20 to 30 days, but they gave him 49 days off from his last start, and rightfully so, 12F will tear a strip out of you, BUT IT WILL ALSO CONDITION THE HORSE! After the well deserved break, they trained him and he put up some pretty pedestrian numbers breezing 4F on dirt, then they asked him to run a week before the race and he ran 5F in a minute flat, in hand on the same surface as today’s race. That tells me he had no adverse affects from his last start, and for a route horse, a minute flat is fast. I have seen this angle work time and time again, and it usually sets up the horse for a career best!

The track bias for the week leading up to today’s race favored horses coming off the pace, another positive for the 9, his PP’s are littered with late moves. He proved himself at this condition and RC in his last start, it just comes down to having the testicular fortitude to commit yourself to the angle.

Now let’s look at the horses that had recently won their last start, the 2-3-8-10. I give this angle a hard look, usually for horses underneath unless they can show me they have the ability to repeat. The 2-3-8 had put up big Total Energy numbers, and were obvious contenders for today’s race. The 2 had never run 3 races in a row, he needs the lay-off. The 3 (which i love), was very lightly raced this year, and was the obvious early horse, but he had a few question marks for me, track bias was against him, questionable form, shipped in that morning (which he had never done in the past), i would use him underneath at best. The 8, here is where it gets interesting, i like horses that put up big numbers 3 or 4 starts back, and they tend to cycle every 3 to 5 starts with a big effort. The 10 was the same way with one big difference, he had won his last start with other runners in that race coming back to win in their next start (exiting a key race).

I messed this race up along with a lot of other people, i have a bias toward the Woodbine runners and it left me with “blinkers on”. I looked at this race two ways, logically with the 5-2-3, and out in left field with the 9-10-11-1. Unfortunately i went with the logical selections and fell flat on my face, i at least should have used the 9 as a bomb as my third selection, but that’s what happens when you have 100 decisions to make in a race, you can’t always be right.

As a wise handicapper once told me, “things are a lot more obvious after the fact”.

[pktruckdriver]

Here is my take on that race (GP-10). You would have had to step out of the box on this one, the methodology would never point to this outcome, in my opinion. Take this for what it’s worth, if you agree or disagree, that’s your prerogative.

9 – Mucho Mas Macho.

We have ten lines to judge this horse on what it has the ability to do, and the first thing i look at is the Total Energy Rating. At best he ran a 162.7 at this distance and surface, the 2,3,5,7 and 8, all had the ability to run a 165 to 167 at the same distance and surface, the question today is, are they in form to put up those numbers today? On the surface the 9 looked to be an early toss, but there are a few angles telling me not so fast. Let’s look at what the horse does after a lay-off (7th line back), he generally comes out and runs a 75 adjusted speed rating (just like his last start before today), the next start out he improves to a 78, albeit on dirt. So that tells me he will improve on his last start (line 1), and he will be in top form today. Is that enough to compete with days runners? The answer is NO. But there was a difference in his last start, they stretched him out to a mile and a half, something he had never done. It was the same conditions as today, and on the same surface, and he finished a very respectable second, only 1.8 lengths back.

Now we come to one of my favorite angles, The Cutback. He generally runs every 20 to 30 days, but they gave him 49 days off from his last start, and rightfully so, 12F will tear a strip out of you, BUT IT WILL ALSO CONDITION THE HORSE! After the well deserved break, they trained him and he put up some pretty pedestrian numbers breezing 4F on dirt, then they asked him to run a week before the race and he ran 5F in a minute flat, in hand on the same surface as today’s race. That tells me he had no adverse affects from his last start, and for a route horse, a minute flat is fast. I have seen this angle work time and time again, and it usually sets up the horse for a career best!

The track bias for the week leading up to today’s race favored horses coming off the pace, another positive for the 9, his PP’s are littered with late moves. He proved himself at this condition and RC in his last start, it just comes down to having the testicular fortitude to commit yourself to the angle.

Now let’s look at the horses that had recently won their last start, the 2-3-8-10. I give this angle a hard look, usually for horses underneath unless they can show me they have the ability to repeat. The 2-3-8 had put up big Total Energy numbers, and were obvious contenders for today’s race. The 2 had never run 3 races in a row, he needs the lay-off. The 3 (which i love), was very lightly raced this year, and was the obvious early horse, but he had a few question marks for me, track bias was against him, questionable form, shipped in that morning (which he had never done in the past), i would use him underneath at best. The 8, here is where it gets interesting, i like horses that put up big numbers 3 or 4 starts back, and they tend to cycle every 3 to 5 starts with a big effort. The 10 was the same way with one big difference, he had won his last start with other runners in that race coming back to win in their next start (exiting a key race).

I messed this race up along with a lot of other people, i have a bias toward the Woodbine runners and it left me with “blinkers on”. I looked at this race two ways, logically with the 5-2-3, and out in left field with the 9-10-11-1. Unfortunately i went with the logical selections and fell flat on my face, i at least should have used the 9 as a bomb as my third selection, but that’s what happens when you have 100 decisions to make in a race, you can’t always be right.

As a wise handicapper once told me, “things are a lot more obvious after the fact”.

Nicely done Sir, we also came up with pretty much the same horse for the contest, I think it was 2,3,4 and 7,8 as back up's, nothng on the 9 and 10.

The next few post will list various screen shotss, most wll understand, as I will show what we saw before and after.

patrick

[pktruckdriver]

Here is what the program choose for me, and it normally does well, I rarely have to change things when it picks lines, but later I will.

I have the adjusted screen showing what RDSS chose for me, and the BL/BL screen, then I sshow horse 9 and 10, and then I show BL/BL with every line of horse 9 and 10, and neither makes it near the top, but...

Net speed rating , what is it exactly, and why is it there?
Yes, 2 direct questions ?

How does a horse recieve a 61 DTV, please expain this, and does it come from RDSS or Trackmaster, please?

Why , in this race is the weight added to the 9 horse , just because he ran a 12f race recently, not win it , just run it, am I reading this right? Is this for real and why do this? Not an RDSS issue, but a question for the guy who say read the conditons , maybe he will explain this condition, and why it's there?

more to come

[rmath]

Bill. look at the #1 post on this thread for the 10 horse, the adj pacelines and you will see the 61 DTV that Patrick is talking about.

I want to thank everyone who responded to this thread. There were several very interesting and informative responses that I will have to pay attention to.

Again thanks to all of you.
rmath

[pktruckdriver]

Okay here under "Net Speed rating" , the 1 and 9 are tops, both 115, yet no color and really nothing to state this should be looked at or even considered as a factor for this race, should it be considered? If not why is it there?

Yes same question as last post, just trying ask it twice to see what the response will be, ok?

Again the 10 is the bottom horse and 9 no where to be seen. How about the adjusted screen, lets look there too.


Okay in the adjusted data screen, it shows the following horse's 1st or 2nd , and I want to know if these horse all could be considered as possible contenders here in thiss race from this info on this screen? If they are not contenders , then please explain to me why not, please .

they are horse , 2,3,5 and 8,9,10 , both are red and green and show to me they will be there in the end, is this false and I am reading it wrong, it happens sometimes with me , mis-reading something. But to stop mis-reading , does not one ask about it to help clarify it from happening again, mis-reading it , that is?

Must run to Doctor's office , back later, and I will see what is here,
Patrick

[partsnut]

Hi Patrick,

As you know I hold you in very regard as a fellow handicapper, good friend and a very kind person.
I felt your questions are excellent and as of yet have not been intelligently addressed. The reason could very well be, that they in fact, cannot be answered.
So in this spirit I thought I might add what I feel is indicative in this type of race.

I guess one can make a case for just about any race.
I feel the story of this race is the winners back class. Unfortunately and in my opinion, there is no software that can adequately address this "Angle".
Being that after scratches this horse did come up as one of my top 4 horses and depending on how one plays, this horse might have been considered for a bet if they were tracking the impact value of this specific angle. some people do play longshots such as this if in the long run this type of horse (Angle) shows a profit.

You can see my illustrations at the following link.
https://www.box.com/shared/pan6mpvz9u

[Bill V.]

Hi Patrick

I really do not know what the answers are to how the various speed ratings
are calculated so i am still likw you waiting to hear from Ted on that

As far as why a horse gets a 61 DTV its again something that I have no answer for

The wieght off question, I can offer some help

Patrick the weight adjustments comes from the conditions.
Every horse starts off with a weight assignment of
123 lbs
Then each further condition that the horse does not meet
it "earns" the advantage of weight off.
This is done to give lesser horse a chance and make fuller fields.

33399

[pktruckdriver]

I am still not sure what to think about concerning the issue's me and Rich have noticed here. I do not think we are alone, and asking aabout things in the program , is not "dissing it", just look in the PA contest RDSS teams are winning, that is not a conincidence , now is it ?

So, to better understand what is on the screens and how best to interpret them, I asked the following questions in this post and have not gotten any real answer's, Net SR, a 61 DTV, the adjusted screen meanings, when opened during the Analysis process, and a few others.

Yet , I get or got, what are you asking , I do not understand your questions, when I am asking straight forward questions, giving screen shots to explain my questions and still, getting , what are you asking , what are you showing , when it is right there to be seen , right out there in the open

example, from Bill

Were do you see a 61 DTV ? I'm lost there please clarify

Post Number 1 , horse 10 , Line 1 has a DTV of 61, not hidden, but right for all to see.

Now do I expect that RDSS should have given us the 1st and 2nd place horse's here, let me say this, MAYBE. Why, maybe, well when I looked deeper after the race , this is stuff I saw and i think yes , maybe we could have, IF ?

REMEMBER LAST YEAR, when TED and only TED hit the La. Derby with a 200.00 winner, yet all us other RDSS user's did have him, yet TED showed us later how he got it, using the Match UP, which we all have in RDSS 1, but me personally , I use RDSS2 only, and miss the Match Up, and this is not , repeat not a jab at TED for not having it in RDSS2, he has stated before he is working on it and will eventually have it back in soon enough, and if we wanted we can always go back to the original and use it, for me that is okay for now, but having it back would be nice.

I mention this because Ted found that gem using RDSS, we did not, was it because he used and read something in thee program we missed or did not understand, not that time, as the Match Up screen is pretty straight forward when being used, but apparently none of us used it that day, and kudos to TED for doing so. HE HIT USING RDSS.

I just want to know how to better grasp and understand the things I see in the program, where they come from and why they are there and how best to use them to make me find the possible winners, not bash anything or be negative in any way, let me be perfectly clear on this , okay.

Interpretation of the adjusted screen, when in Ananlysis mode, having the horses of the race, not the mode of only 1 horse. There is color coding there, and I just want to be sure I am interpeting it the waay ot should be.

Like in the beaten lengths Final, if it is in red, does that mean this horse should possibly be a considerd a win contender for this race? If not, why?

Same screen, what is Net SR, and why is it there, and how important is it?

Does this screen change if my original settings are , seen below.

[Ted Craven]

Sorry folks for the delay responding - not ignoring this, only other things related to P&C and RDSS ...

Here are a few definitions (though I'm surprised folks have not decoded Net SR):

33409

Examine the circled caption: SR - DTV = Net SR. Net SR is the TrackMaster SR net of the DTV. In the example, last line, SR of 106 minus DTV of 61 = Net SR of 45. When you have a negative DTV (e.g. -10) you subtract a negative (= add a positive) and the Net SR is higher than the SR.

The numbers under those captions (and all headed by the caption 'TrackMaster') indicate that those numbers come from TrackMaster and are NOT calculated by RDSS (i.e. unlike the 'Adjusted SR' which calculated entirely by RDSS). The TrackMaster SR includes 3 components: 1) a raw speed component based on final time, 2) a Daily Track Variant (DTV) component based on average deviation of final time for the day from a previous year historical par, segregated by distance and surface, 3) an Inter-Track Variant (ITV) - a differential of the annually adjusted final times (by distance/surface/track) compared to a hypothetical norm (i.e. the notorious 'Sartin Downs'). The ITV is not shown (a proprietary number to TrackMaster/Equibase). Thus, the TrackMaster SR is an adjusted SR seeking to normalize final times among all pacelines and horses by increasing the SR when the DTV is slow (VERY SLOW) (a positive value, e.g. the +61 of the example horse's last line), and decreasing the SR when the DTV is FAST (negative). By definition, Trackamster uses 100% of their DTV figure to modify their SR (which is further modified by an undisplayed ITV value).

Guy Wadsworth, in Speculator, saw fit to break out the DTV component from the aggregate TrackMaster SR and displayed the result as Net SR (this was not in Validator). Perhaps he, or some Speculator users thought that sometimes the DTV was suspect, or bogus, and wanted a number which simply represented the underlying raw final time as a SR number. I can't guess at that rationale.

What I DO KNOW - is, when I created RDSS, starting in 2005, I knew no one needed a program from some guy named Ted Craven. Yet nearly 100 people used Speculator and many more used Validator and various other Sartin programs, so I sought 9at least for starters) to make RDSS a copy of Speculator, then Validator (for which I had source code from Guy and then from Dr Sartin). That's why Net SR is there - period.

I have not consulted that number from the day after I programmed it. No one else, in 7 years, has enquired about it and I have forgotten about it (so congratulation Patrick, for your attention to detail and enquiring mind :)). The TrackMaster SR as it is, is a supplementary number to our own internal Adjusted SR, more often The reporting scales of the Trackmaster SR and the RDSS Adjusted SR are different, so the absolute numbers will be different, though frequently in synch if not equal (and more so if you configure your RDSS adjustments to use 100% of the DTV figure) - but sometimes not matching at all.

Re the 61 DTV for the #10's last line - simply, that reported race final time: 145.8 is VERY SLOW for Gulfstream 8f Turf. Check the other GP 8f Turf times on that race or other races this season - you will find 142s and 144s in PPs of other horses for this race alone. It would not surprise me if the final time was mis-reported (I know GP's timer on Turf has been notoriously flakey this season). Also, the rail position is reported in the Result Chart as 84 feet and the runup distance 135 feet. For whatever reason, that 145 final time is stated as 61 DTV points (.10 seconds per furlong at 8f) or 6.1 seconds slower than last year's par for that distance and surface at GP. Using all of the foregoing to come up with an adjusted final time for that last line is, in good measure, an exercise in 'fun with numbers' - and I would seek to avoid using that line with extreme prejudice.

Anyway, the Best of the Last 3 comparable (Perceptor) (BLT/C) is easily the 2nd line (with a more reasonable DTV of +11). Give it the 4th line if you like and it does not change the BLBL ranking for the horse.

I hope that answers some questions about Net SR. I have no advice on its usage, except to advise everyone to IGNORE IT and not use it. I can see NO REASON to muck with Speed Ratings (as opposed to actual raw times) which are unadjusted by some assessment of how relatively fast or slow the races were on a given day (i.e. the DTV) - and the Net SR does not include DTV (that's what 'net' means).

In the Saturday Contest, I suggested to my team for GP 10 7-2-4 but Hoof11 had the final say on our teams selection. I recall I passed over the #10 winner due to insufficient performance relative to today's G2 status (and relative to the G3/G2 performance of enough other horses).

That said, if you care to 'hold your nose' for whatever good reasons regarding efforts at a competition level similar to today, try this exercise: use the Paceline Selector (PSS) 'Population Sample'; eliminate all but the top 6 BLBL. From those potential contenders, then do a 'BLT/C' PSS and see how the #10 is rated. (also, FWIW, in this particular race, ask if the returning classy #3 is yet ready to run back to his stellar Graded performances and note that he would today be rated on a lower level Woodbine Poly race, its first in a year and a half).

All that gets the #10 fairly up there. The rest is up to you and whatever venturesome wagering (or Contest) strategy you choose to employ.

33410

(And FWIW, try the above multi-stage PSS/Contender identification process on 100 (or 500) races and see how often you get the top 3 finishers within your 5 or 4 Primary Contenders ...).

That's all for now, but I'm happy to explain what I know about any other questions on factors showing up in this race's screens.

cheers,

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Interpretation of the adjusted screen, when in Analysis mode, having the horses of the race, not the mode of only 1 horse. There is color coding there, and I just want to be sure I am interpeting it the waay ot should be.

Like in the beaten lengths Final, if it is in red, does that mean this horse should possibly be a considerd a win contender for this race? If not, why?

Same screen, what is Net SR, and why is it there, and how important is it?

Does this screen change if my original settings are , seen below.

Patrick,

On the Adjusted Screen, RED (and GREEN and YELLOW) coding for the Beaten Lengths column simply shows the horse's Position (i.e. 1st, 2nd, 3rd). It is not a recommendation that it is a good line. The colour coding for Final Time shown on the Adjusted screen rank the Pace of Race (not horse) Final Time for all times shown. Thus, on the Analysis version of that screen, the colour codings will reveal the fastest Pace of Race final and segment times (and will match Velocity PoR rankings).

Net SR question was answered above, I believe.

Changes to your Config settings adjusts all figures based on Adjusted running times (which is EVERY time/velocity/energy based readout on all screens except raw times and TrackMaster SR and DTV).

If you have your DTV Min/Max range set to -50 / +50 RDSS uses (normally) the entire DTV value (and then 50% or 100% or 0% of that - based on your DTV% setting) to adjust final and incremental times. For really slow (e.g. +61 - outside the normal boundary) or really fast times, this speeds up or slows down running times by a lot more than if you have a more conservative DTV range of say -15 / +15, or whatever more moderate setting. Using a tighter range can cost you some elevated rankings for horses when they have large DTV values, but in the long term (IMO) it evens out and subjects you to fewer instances of 'fun with numbers'.

Ted

[Bill V.]

Patrick

I'm sorry if you feel my questions are a pain
Yes you asked a good question
Yes you provided screen shots
I still was confused . and asked for more help.
I have always been and will always be the stupidist
member of pace and cap
but I try to both ask questions and provide answers
always with one goal "to get it right "
even when I often make a fool of my self and ask a
question every body else with half a brain can see
This is all very important to me " to get it right "
Any part of the Sartin Methodology is my bread and butter
I put everything into being the best I can
I look at or have no interest in anything horse racing
related then tools and readouts directly related to
the Sartin Methodology. Once again I am sorry for my ignorance. to your posted questions,
I knew Ted would help out with the readout questions

I would not ignore your questions

I apologize I will work harder
Bill

[pktruckdriver]

Patrick

I'm sorry if you feel my questions are a pain
Yes you asked a good question
Yes you provided screen shots
I still was confused . and asked for more help.
I have always been and will always be the stupidist
member of pace and cap
but I try to both ask questions and provide answers
always with one goal "to get it right "
even when I often make a fool of my self and ask a
question every body else with half a brain can see
This is all very important to me " to get it right "
Any part of the Sartin Methodology is my bread and butter
I put everything into being the best I can
I look at or have no interest in anything horse racing
related then tools and readouts directly related to
the Sartin Methodology. Once again I am sorry for my ignorance. to your posted questions,
I knew Ted would help out with the readout questions

I would not ignore your questions

I apologize I will work harder
Bill

Bill, it does seem to me and a few of my friends who have read our posts back forth , and they have asked me , the following :

Why do you guys hate each other so much, YES, they get that from reading our posts, and I guess when I re-read them with that perspective, I see it clearly too, AND I AM EMBARRASED AT MYSELF FOR THE WAY I RESPONDED TO IN MY POSTS, ALLOW ME TO ASK THAT YOU FORGIVE ME FOR, my so called callous responses to attemped help AND MY BULLHEADED RESPONSE.

You have done the very best to help anyone at anytime, and when you did not know you said so, and waited for someone who did to respond, as was this case , waiting for Ted to tackle it, which he did okay with. Not Great, lol.

He says ,IGNORE, Net SR, so I will.

Match Up ?

I know Ted your time is so consuming, having be waylaid for awhile and catching up, as well stuff I know nothing about, but thank you.

Maybe we could have something like this to show former races and who ran in them? Helping Identify who ran againgst each other, Like in the PP's where they are highlighted to know, then again, ???

[Ted Craven]

Match Up ?

I know Ted your time is so consuming, having be waylaid for awhile and catching up, as well stuff I know nothing about, but thank you.

Maybe we could have something like this to show former races and who ran in them? Helping Identify who ran against each other, Like in the PP's where they are highlighted to know, then again, ???


Tandems = next release (just like in RDSS1, plus).

[Bill V.]

I just sent you a PM

Bill

[Ted Craven]

Re my detailed post above, I realize I was temporarily mistaken (while I was writing) as to the winner (it was #9 not #10, thought they were a neck apart). The best I could get (and only as an afterthought) was my discussion about the #10. The #9 was rather far out of it in that analysis, though Hoof and Partsnut make valid cases for the back-class issue.

Ted