Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up - Practice Race Keeneland Race 8

Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up (http://paceandcap.com/forums/index.php)

- Pace Makes the Race / TPR Total Pace Ratings (http://paceandcap.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=148)

- - Practice Race Keeneland Race 8 (http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10417)

Pook; I should have added in my last post that one of the things I always look for in reviewing a horses chart is to see if its a NTL horse, then determine if it can get it as those horses are always dangerous. An old Sartin axiom. If they can't their an easy throw out. My list wasn't complete as to what I look for and I should say; "and other things."

The # 11 was a NTL and possible the #9. I figured neither was going to keep the lead but would go against each other setting up a fast pace for a closer. I was looking for a closer and landed on the 5 & 7. I considered the #4 but his soundness issue steered me to the 5 & &7. Right church and wrong pew as they say.
Sorry,
Mitch44

Mark,
I used to be a contrarian handicapper, still am somewhat. I evolved a little realizing that this game is continually changing. More information and new racing software make the job a bit more difficult in find values.
Your quote..." this was a very unusual race", and that's what I'm looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitch44 (Post 103258)

Pook the reason I'm not in M4$ it is that I'm not a matchup guy. I'm well aware of its concepts and having tried it realize my limitations. Very few can employ it on any consistent winning basis. The number that can vs. those that can't is a huge
Mitch44

Hey Mitch,

If you ask Ted or Bill V. they will tell you it is all Matchup on this forum. Ted uses a lot of new RDSS stuff in the contest and makes no apologies. None are required. Richie works only in RDSS. Me too. I don't think anyone is staring at raw data in a form and doing what Jim did. Bill has said he is not a Matchup guy. We all use elements of it in different ways.

The stuff you just wrote about yesterdays race. Golden. That insight into a M4$ race would be quite welcome.

I knew I would raise some hackles prodding you guys. I mean no offense. Many enjoy reading the M4$ players take on races because of the different perspectives. Would just like to add you guys. You express yourselves well.

Mmmm.....now what can I respond to Mark?

Pook

:eek:

Let me record the Arkansas Derby and the Oaklawn Handicap. Some Melatonin might lull me to sleep ;).

I will pop some popcorn and will be right back:rolleyes:

Pook; No offence taken. I didn't see your post that way. I'll consider it when it comes back up. I use many different tools. Hmmmmmmmm good luck with Mark.

Mitch44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark (Post 103261)

Pook,

Do you feel that you have something to contribute to the readers of this forum? I do. I have been handicapping of around 50 years more of it with just a racing form than a software program. I feel there are insights that can be added to the topics offered for discussion and therefore I write mine. No one demanded or required that I participate in contest when I signed on nearly 3 years ago and few have ever questioned my veracity.
If you do not feel like my comments have value than don't read them. I have only one person to satisfy: Myself.
It is fairly obvious that I strongly disagree with the focus on the last line, or best of the last 3 comparable and have tried to explain my thinking. While I can't argue with this approach for new subscribers to help them get going, I don't think it is practicable except for the very few.
My first exposure to Doc Sartin was in the early 90s. I attended a few Las Vegas seminars and one in Beaumont and visited with the Doc at the office in Beaumont several times. A very gracious man who treated me to lunch at a local Mexican restaurant. I got the impression that he felt guilty taking peoples' money for programs as I always left with an armload of manuals that he would give to me. But I did pay $1,500 for Thoromation back then. Still have he disc along with maybe 5 other programs of his. I think Pace Launcher was the last one I bought.
While I do not intend to offend anyone's sensibilities, I make no apologies. I have been an infrequent poster until subjects recently have struck a note in me. On these I have made my perspective very clear.

Mark does someone burn your toast every morning?

If I didn't feel that you add interesting points of view to races I wouldn't have mentioned your name. Question your veracity? I don't have the vast knowledge and detail of this game that you have. But I do feel I add something of value to this board by doing this weekly contest. Players find it to be fun. It gives us something to look forward to most weekends and viewers maybe learn some stuff about matching horses. And it adds life to the board.

Your contributions and that of the other guys in the TPR forum is great. Of course there is no requirement to play contests. Just trying to pique your interests. Adds to the pot. More for us to win.:D

Pook

Well this has turned into a very interesting thread. Nice to see people sharing ideas on how they do things. When I joined in 1990 it was more or less sink or swim. Sure you could call the Doc or Jimmy or Glenn Connelly but time was limited. I used almost every program available and like some have alluded to it always drove me nuts as to which adjustment to use. Anyway I'm not a matchup guy per se[I check ntl horses etc]. After I watched the Docs' 1on 1 videos where he stated he know longer attempted to project the pace of race or visual perception but rather was using the computer compounded ratings I've gone with that. Basically I agree that there are several ways to skin the cat. I've been friends with Mitch since we met at the 90 Sar seminar and we grew into the methodology together. We were also lucky to close some of the hotel bars with Doc,Jimmy and others so we picked up some tidbits. Point is I hope this thread continues and thank those who have posted so far.
Tim

Hey guys
I am so proud of how we are all taking turns and posting here in the TPR forum.
I would like everybody to look at this forum as a modern day Sartin seminar

So lets continue to give each other our full respect.
When somebody post , lets visualize that person up on the podium
and we are all seated in the crowd, Lets continue to listen to what each presenter /poster has to say,
We do this in a friendly professional way, we all will gather our own bits of learning.

We can do this .
Bill

Bill,
here is a good race to practice...GP 4-17....race 5.
After the fact, call me Mr. redboard. Is not an unusual race just a simple 6f nw3L.
No peeking.

Yes sir GL 45 has stepped up and would like to do a practice race
Race 5 from GP 4/17/16

I just skimmed it . I will work it as a practice race. GL45 I have a feeling
things might not work for my methods, but lets try

I will post the race in its own thread for ease of viewing

GS
Bill