Thanks Ted.

Profit Line Discrepancies
 

Ted, I have noticed this problem, where Twins Spires profit line does not agree with the RDSS profit line. Happens about 1-2 times a race card and usually is just a point difference e.g. 1 becomes a 2 or vice versa. Sometimes it may be a 2 point difference. That is more problematic.
Attachment 46103

Attachment 46103

Races with entries also present a problem since both parts show the same rank when in fact on the actual profit line sheet they are not. The sheet also shows what the odds should be if 1 part of the entry is a scratch.
Tim

Please click on the 'expander' icon [+] on the Entries screen above the Scratch column at left to show several lines of info for each Entry. Under the PL column you can see the actual percentage probability figure supplied by TS for ProfitLine for each horse. If you hover the mouse over that number, you'll see an elaboration (probability and implied odds). RDSS simply ranks these probability numbers and uses those as the rank. If the rank shown on the TS ProfitLine screen is other than RDSS' rank, then they are ranking their ProfitLine differently than their own probability (and thus odds) numbers show. Which is fine! But inconsistent.

Which would you rather have: the rank shown by TS, or the rank computed by the probability/odds numbers given by TS?

Alas, I do not have the PL numbers for the PRX race in question above, else I could illustrate the point. If someone could email me their PRX April 23 ProfitLine downloaded file (folder C:\Rdss2.1\Data\ProfitLine\2018\20180423\20180423-PRX.htm), I will incorporate it into my readouts and repost screenshots to illustrate. Or - Pat (Old Arkie Gal), perhaps you could simply post the 'expanded' Entries screen showing that expanded ProfitLine data for the race in question and we could continue the enquiry?

Also, Tim (Lt1) if you or someone can post an example of the 'expanded' Entries screen showing where each half of a Coupled Entry has a different ProfitLine number/rank - I would be obliged.

In ANY event, my plan is to move AWAY from the detailed PL data available from the TS ProfitLine page shown above (since no one seems to pay attention to it, and when it diverges with TS' ranks, people complain) - to a simple listing of PL Odds and the resulting computed ranks (or tied ranks) which is now available without logging in to TS via the new tote system from TwinSpires Mobile (the former BRIS Supertote).

I just thought that a ProfitLine with probability = odds of 2.9-1 should be ranked higher than a PL with odds of 3-1 though they likely are both rounded to 3-1 and given the same rank. (In a similar way to how there's a difference in a DRF fifths-based time of 45.1 fifth actually being 45.39 tenths and you not knowing that it should probably be shown as 45.2 fifths but got 'rounded down' ;) Just saying ...)

Thoughts, comments?

Ted

Expanded
 

Hi Ted

I sent you the file from Parx 4/23 on a email.

Tim

I am not sure about what Twinspires shows on their Profit Line sheet

I never go there , I just go by what RDSS shows , so I can't comment
on any difference if both or only one half of a entry run

Here is race 2 from 4 24 Expanded


Attachment 46105

Bill, could you show the Race 5 we are discussing above? Thanks.

EDIT: Never mind Bill - I got your file and will post the Race 5 expanded screen myself.

Ted

Entry
 

Hi Tim

Here is a race from Parx on Tuesday

The 1A was scratched

Here are the RDSS screens with the 1A scratched and with the IA back in

Either way RDSS gives the entry an 18.52 % PERCENT AND A 4.4/1 ODDS

But like I posted above I never look at the twinspires PL "sheets" so I can't comment on what they show

Attachment 46106
Attachment 46107

Here is the expanded screen for the race in question. Horse #3 has a slightly higher PL probability/odds value of 15.51 (rounded to 15.5) or odds of 5.4-1 compared to Horse #1 which has probability of 15.43 or odds of 5.5-1. That is why RDSS ranked the #3 as rank 2 and the #1 as rank 3, which I agree is different by 1 rank position from what is showing on the TS ProfitLine screen where BOTH are shown with ProfitLine odds of 6-1 (i.e. rounded UP) and the ranks are reversed for some reason. All these numbers come from the same TS ProfitLine screen (just under the surface). That's the technical answer for where RDSS gets its ranks.

Which numbers would you rather have?

Attachment 46108

Here is the TwinSpires ProfitLine page shown above with slightly different ranks.

http://paceandcap.com/forums/attachm...1&d=1524701344

Ted

is it possible Tim (Lt1) is looking at a DIFFERENT online ProfitLine source which displays DIFFERENT PL values for coupled entry members?

Tim - if so, can you elaborate, maybe display, the different online ProfitLine source. The source I use (the TS ProfitLine display aboe, always gives identical PL values for both horses in a coupled entry.

Again, as I mentioned above, I intend with the next update to simply fetch the PL Odds (in my above example) from the TS Mobile odds stream, and abandon the fine-grained ProfitLine probability values I have been using. Thus, in the example above for PRX Race 5 April 23, we'd see BOTH horse #3 and #1 show as 6-1 (and NOT 5.5-1 and 5.4-1) and BOTH ranked identically. I will retain the existing means of fetching ProfitLine by logging in to TS, but the new automated procedure will happen without any initial login required.

(FWIW - I will also be adding the BRIS Prime Power number as a new external 'power number' - ranks, gaps and the number itself, and integrated into Rx if one chooses).

Ted

Hi guys. I'm not good posting screen shots but here's an example of what I'm talking about. In tomorrows 6th race at Bel we have the 1 entry. Although neither is ranked in the top 5 they are ranked on the sheet. In this case the 1 is ranked #6 while the 1a is 12th. Ml for both is 6-1 however the PL odds are 18-1 for both if they both run. If the 1a were to scr the 1 remains 18-1 however if the 1 scr the 1a would be 50-1. This is the way all entries are reflected on the actual sheet regardless of their rank. So when 1 of them scr make sure to check if the ranks change in the grid.. Even the Bris pps power #s ranked them differently. For example in this race the 1 is ranked 10th while the 1a is ranked 6th. Ted I don't know if anything can be done about this so it looks like it's something we have to live with. For those who watch the races on the TS screen sometimes when 1 of the entry is top 3 rated you will see it in the Handicapping box. I don't know if this helps or not.
Tim

The Profit Line sheet I'm talking about is the one you buy from Brisnet.com for $5.
Tim

Tim, email me a time when we can connect computers and I can SEE that $5 ProfitLine document you are referring to. Then I can get a copy and investigate further.

OR - if it is a PDF document, download it and forward it to me.

I will check what RDSS can fetch for Prime Power for AQU tomorrow and see if the coupled entries have different BPP values.

Thanks,

Ted

I've decided to do the first couple of weeks of Belmont without using pl numbers from twinspires.Unfortunately I ran into a problem. I opened a race, did my handicapping, downloaded the results on the fx3 screen and then exported it. The finish positions did not carry to column i and the prices for the first three horses and the exacta and the trifecta in columns bx, etc did not carry over in the export file. They will appear in the export file only if the pl numbers from twinspires are downloaded and used in the handicapping. Are there are any other users who use the export feature and don't use the pl numbers?

Thanks for the report Charlie. I will make it so that proper export of other existing data is not dependent on ProfitLine data being there.

Ted

Ah. I like the explanation re PL. Sometimes I miss an explanation and then ask again and you offer a logical answer. But then I'm not sure if you offered that explanation before. Regardless I liked the answer.
Pat

All the above discussion about ProfitLine intermittent problems now appears moot. As of today May 3, 2018 - it appears TwinSpires has changed the code at their site by which RDSS previously accessed ProfitLine data - so, it is just not available currently (or more likely, anymore, in that old way).

Please read this: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthr...497#post115497

I strongly urge people to STOP accessing ProfitLine in RDSS for the time being: the ranks which will show are just wrong, and Rx3 is consequently wrong too. If you DO inadvertently download ProfitLine, just ignore it and ignore Rx3. Instead use Rx2 or Rx1 for a composite Odds Line (if you use Rx at all). Note: if you do NOT have ProfitLine numbers in RDSS, the Rx3 numbers are the same as the Rx2 numbers.

Not to worry (eventually) for those who want to use ProfitLine (and Rx3) as a non-correlated odds line -- the next RDSS 2.1 update will still access ProfitLine via the new tote system and it will re-appear in RDSS (and require no TwinSpires login to get it).

I expect a RDSS 2.1 update which reinstates ProfitLine (and adds much other stuff) sometime later in May.

:(:)

Ted

Scratched FTS not scratched
 

I would consider this a minor item. In PIM4 today, there are two First Time Starters that are scratched but still appear on the Analysis screens.

Good one Mick, thanks. FTS still have a few adjustments to be made on different readouts and Paceline Selection Strategies. But better than not having them at all, so far!


Ted

Problem downloading cards
 

When I attempt to download a race card I get the message in the attachment. Please advise what steps I need to take.

Thanks Thomas Leusing

Here you go: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showpos...7&postcount=17


Ted

Thanks
 

Thank you for that quick reply. Will start the steps now

How's the development/bug squishing of "Part 2" coming along?

For sure. I haven’t been able to properly access Profit Line etc. for months now. Late May was the latest projection for when these connection problems would be cleared up. It is now mid June. I am subscribed to the all tracks package and so am paying good change for the info every month. I would like to have all the tools available to me and the ability to auto record results for easier record keeping etc. I am sure it is a lot of work but like I stated it is now half way through June.

Pook

What can I say!? Issues come up. I am still working on the next version, it will get released. It will have what was promised. I prefer to not release it before things work right, before most vexing problems fixed.


I think you got an interim update which got you back in business on your Mac, proof I hope that I have not been totally sitting on my ass (though that indeed is what I do all day long while working :)).


I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but there are still several issues. I'll keep everyone posted.


Ted

I'm not a programmer, and have little experience with code, but is it possible that certain aspects of Powerbuilder/SQL and/or Trackmaster files/Brisnet not "friendly" with what you're trying to accomplish? Just thinking that if there's a newer interface or language out there that's possibly less problematic with the factors at play, perhaps it is worth exploring at a future date, especially if RDSS continues to be your long term focus.

Of course I could be completely wrong. Most programs have some sort of bugs anyway, most of which go unseen by the naked eye. Just throwing my two cents out there. Not trying to stir up ****.

Tim

Is it possible to outsource some work to somebody else? I mean, I'd even be willing to donate money to get features added - I imagine there would be enough interest in getting new features added and/or having somebody expedite updates that we might be able to pool together donation money to make it happen. Please keep in mind I have no idea whatsoever how much this type of work costs so I'm probably highly underestimating it.

Just a thought - Thank you for all the work you do, Ted.

Or, have two versions. A "bare bones" version kind of like Val4/Spec160, but without tote, Rx, PowerLine, etc, and an enhanced version with tote access and other bells and whistles. If someone wants the "deluxe" edition, they could pay extra for your sweat equity. As it is, the $150/year is quite generous, so I'd imagine that many RDSS users would have no issue paying extra for the added features. I'm sure that there are people content with not using extras and like keeping things simple. Don't overextend yourself, Ted. It will all work out in the end!

Tim

Please correct me if I'm wrong .. if you have a Twin Spires account, and can sign in to their site, you can access Profit Line for free. Just look at the race. To the right of ML, and odds .. there is a red arrow. Under it is the number from the race for that horse for PL. It's not quite as convenient as getting it the way we did in RDSS, but it's a temporary fix I've been using since Derby Day. :)

Thanks Ted for all you do. You've turned my racing into a fun, winning, very profitable hobby.

PL problem?
 

Pook
I found that if you access PL you get an error message. Ignore that and you can then save your data automatically. the only problem is that rx3 is messed up. However, I found that at Belmont the 3 Rx's are virtually identical in their predictive value so it is no great loss for me but I am able to save all the info automatically.

You are correct. I sign in everyday and get the PL numbers then go to the RX 3
screen and manually note the ranks. Works just fine for me and since I don't use a spread sheet to record what I model I don't have a problem.
Tim

Rx 2
 

Ditto for me Charlie.
I just ignore the twinspires error and then use RX 2. I am okay with out PL
and I can keep up with my data model automatically

Best Skill

Thought this to myself before

I was simply anxious to get the new totally connected RDSS update. None of the, just do this, or look over here, or ignore that etc. to get by for now stuff. And the reason for the anxiety is the, in hindsight, overly ambitious delivery dates that get blown through.

But it’s okay. I am good. As a paying customer I am allowed to complain and maybe light a little fire under Ted’s ass which he is luckily able to sit on while putting the update together.

So Ted, yes you kept me in business with the latest non-released current version that you had at the time. And I appreciate that. But you gave me the impression then and a couple of months before that, that the update was imminent.

I understand you have to do it right and obviously we want it right. There is no doubt that I and others are waiting. If RDSS was crap and the promised smooth interface was of little interest, we wouldn’t be waiting.

Thanks
Pook

Folks, thank you all for your concern and suggestions about the next release of RDSS 2.1! I do regret giving overly ambitious release dates for software - and have done for 30 years - LOL (just ask my wife)! But I can't help but try to estimate those dates, and more often than not, I get them wrong.

So I won't give an estimate. The estimate is: soon enough.

Re software tools: I use state of the art tools for RDSS: PowerBuilder, SQL Anywhere database, Chilkat software libraries for internet tasks and much more. I can interact just fine with all online data providers including TrackMaster/Equibase, TwinSpires, AmWager and XpressBet. Delay is not the tools fault, it's the programmer/customer and tech support staff/bookkeeper/web site maintainer/chief cook and bottle washer - that person ;) who also likes to bet on his own account. Perhaps too many hats, sigh ...

Re outsourcing: in 35 years of professional software development, I can count on maybe 2 fingers the number of successful outsourcings of components of large software projects (which RDSS is for sure). My judgement, rightly or wrongly, is that outsourcing modules of RDSS would take FAR more time, energy and sorrow than just doing it myself. Bedsides - RDSS software (licensing and TrackMaster data share) does not pay that much as a business, so there's not that much extra money to pay someone worth their salt to do discreet modules of it. I do appreciate the thoughts though for solutions to get it done more quickly for everyone's use, and the kind words of encouragement. (And I don't really mind 'squeaky wheels' ...)

In the end, it WILL all get outsourced somewhere, but presumably not for many years to come: there are a number of very valuable things I have left to do with it. And, I do enjoy working and talking (often behind the scenes) with 99.99% of everyone I meet :)

Jeebs and lostandwon - you are not the first ones to have thought of that evolution of RDSS ... ;)

I promise to release the next version of RDSS as soon as possible, but not sooner. In the meantime, despite some admittedly irritating current glitches, we'll have to make do with the useful tools as they were left us by Doc Sartin and the others.

Thank you all!

Ted

Well stated Ted since after all we all know that haste makes waste. Keep up the great work.
Tim

I have left wing issues
 

Hello Ted

This is from Dad's recent updated RDSS reinstall

Every time he opens a new race or if you goes from the original screen tab tp another tab like Tote for example

When he goes back to the origianal pace line tab the PP's don't show up

The only way I can get them to appear is if i click that blank tab on the left
It is just a blank tab and its located just to the left of the original PP/s tab

Attachment 46419

Bill, thanks for the report. This is an unnamed tab (an artifact of research some time ago) which normally appears at the right end of the Tab list but somehow has become located at the left end of the Tab list.

Fortunately, you can control where any Tab appears in the list and whether a Tab is visible or not, using the PP Panel Tab Layout Icon, the 'gear' icon at the right side of each PP Panel.

Click on the PP Panel affected to bring up the Tab Layout Dialog per the screen shot below. Normally, that unnamed Tab resides at the bottom of the Tab list. If your Dad's is at the top, simply click on the Order number for that Tab and and enter a number higher than the bottom Tab number, or simply 999. Then click Update. The Tabs will renumber themselves with that unnamed Tab at the bottom. Further (or alternately), you can simply uncheck its Visible box to make it invisible.

Finally click Update, then Close.

Attachment 46422

I'll make that little unnamed Tab permanently invisible. Sorry for the confusion. All the best to your Dad!

Ted

It's not a bug, and I suspect might be easy to add to any new versions, (??), but it would be nice to be able to filter in "My Races" also for "claiming amount". Just a suggestion. Thang Q.

This has happened 4 times in the last three days but only at DMR.

The program shows up with the horses already deleted, so that when I go to the tote screen, it then deletes the horse again. For instance in this race the two horse is deleted but the program shows the entries with not two horse. When, I go to the tote board and back, the three horse is deleted because it is the second horse shown. The three horse should not be deleted. (I hope this makes sense.)

This happens because SoCal tracks (both SA and DMR, in my experience) in their wisdom, choose to eliminate some consecutive horses when there are early scratches. In this example, there is no #2 and #5 horse (early scratches). The 2 and 5 betting interests show as scratched on the tote board, so the 2nd and 5th horses in our list (which are the #3 and #7) are scratched (incorrectly).


I'll have to scan for missing horses (only happens in SoCal, I think) and make sure to pad it with blank Tabs so the tote-based scratching works correctly.


Thanks for the report!


Ted