Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up - Barb's Learning Experience with RichieP

Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up (http://paceandcap.com/forums/index.php)

- General Discussion (http://paceandcap.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5)

- - Barb's Learning Experience with RichieP (http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10498)

Barb's Learning Experience with RichieP

http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5881

I am new to RDSS and the Sartin Methodology, but I'm doing the things that Ted and others have recommended. For example, the "Follow Ups" are my bedtime reading these days. I have also read a lot of posts on this forum and I'm keeping the 20-race-cycle Wagering Decision Forms that Doc Sartin so highly recommended.

Quite by accident, I came across this thread by Barb Craven. It's an old one and not easy to find, but it's excellent for a newbie like me. I guess I'm posting it because I don't want it to get lost and I commend it to all my fellow newbies.

Hey there,

The link won't work, you have one too many http:// in it.

BTW, is there a way to export the data directly from RDSS2 into a Wagering Decision Form?

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Mick
Barb and I are on the phone right now talking about this thread, wow from 7 years ago!!

You know there is a LOT of good stuff here and we are talking about getting together for a couple of "sessions" working races the way that is described above! *** Lol my wife Karen just put Barb and I together for a "session" next Sunday July 3rd!! OMG the gals are tough!!!!

The main difference is that Barb NOW is like 10 levels higher in her capping and most importantly WAGERING skills!

I think the "teacher" is about to learn from the "student" ! :D

Hey if its cool maybe we will put up the races, thoughts, etc we work next week using the exact process laid out in the thread!

All the best Mick
Richie

Really enjoyed reading this thread!

Very educational

Thank you Barb and Richie for collaborating to make for a very interesting read.

Best,

Paul Link
Los Angeles, CA

" No one knows enough to be a pessimist"

Richie,

It's gracious and generous of you and Barb to share your knowledge, especially with beginners like me. After I read and re-read her original post, trying to absorb everything I could, I downloaded her WDFs, made a couple of changes, and have been using the modified version fastidiously.

And now, over a two-day span, yesterday and today, I hit eight straight races! That has never happened with me before and you and Barb had much to do with it.

RDSS is an amazing tool but it requires some operator know how. I have very little of it and I truly appreciate you and Barb sharing yours.

With gratitude,
Mick

Congratulations Mick on a great run this past two days.

As Rich said, we were going over this thread earlier this evening. I think I have to go back and re-read this a few times. Some of it has fallen by the wayside like the WDF and looking at certain readouts for sprints and others for routes and I'm still guilty of doing more races at one time than I should. I think some homework is in order. Working with RDSS is all I've ever known and everything I do is done using it. Maybe differently now than back then, but the program itself has evolved too. The basics are still the same though.

I like the thought of doing races with Rich again, we haven't done this in quite some time. He can post though, I can't do two things at once. Oh, and don't let him fool you, I'll never be even one quarter the 'capper he is and I'm not a matcher, never was, he wouldn't let me.

Keep up the good work.

Barb

Barb,

I look forward to reading about your evolution as a 'wagercapper,' to use Doc Sartin's term. By providing me with a starting place and some basic first steps that Richie had helped you with, you gave me a more clear path forward. And while you may no longer use WDFs, I benefited from going through the three you attached to that original post. They were instructive and worthy of emulation. From the Follow Ups, I believe Doc Sartin said that a principal purpose was to show you from what tiers your more profitable winners came. That's certainly true, but they've made me a more disciplined bettor and I needed that.

If the planets line up, hopefully I'll see you at Woodbine.

Warm regards,
Mick

I look forward to that Mick.

The last piece..

Richie,

That Turf race you posted about a month or so ago and a post from way back was the last piece. Now I see it and can do it. RDSS2 is an excellent platform to implement "The Hat's" Match Up. But it has taken me over 3 years to figure out how you arrive at your final selection which consistently pays double digit mutuels. It is not like you did not comment and post many times on the particular aspects, it was just very hard for me to put the steps in the right order and find the correct RDSS2 configuration. Anyway, I can't thank you enough for all your time and effort. You have helped so many people, me being one of them. I still am in awe of Jim Bradshaw. His method is just mindboggling. To think that he did it all with a pencil and the racing form is unworldy and goes to show that we are not all created equal. He was a very brilliant man and you, his last student are his legacy.

Woodbine July 3rd

Talking with Barb working the Woodbine Card for today:

Race 1 - Barb scrolled the field (5f MSW , turf) first feeling was most horses only have 1 or 2 lines, not playable as she is uncomfortable with what she is seeing. PASS

Race 2 - Barb scrolled the field twice before doing anything regarding line selection, contenders etc. No major issues, comfortable about picking lines.
Pacelines chosen:
Horse 1 - line 7
Horse 2 - line 3
Horse 3 - line 1
Horse 4 - line 2
Horse 5 - line 3
Horse 6 - line 2
Horse 7 - line 3

Barb dropped the 1,2,5 to secondary contender status (she used the RX factor in her version of RDSS to hide and reduce these to non contender for WIN) *** I do not have this version so can't see what she was doing**

Win Contenders in order on her "RX" readout:
6-3-4-7

** Barb notes that the #4 and #6 are counter energy runners in her top contender mix. **

** Barb will use post time odds and the layout in this thread as far as betting decisions to wager using her "RX" contenders in order instead of Bl/BL.She has a note saying if the odds are good the #3 will definitely be one of her 2 win bets

Woodbine July 3rd

Race 3 - Barb has her notes saying too many horses with only 1 running line - PASS

Race 4 - 6f Turf sprint (G2) scratches down to 6 runners, Barb does races with minimum 7 betting entries - PASS

Woodbine July 3rd

Race 5 - Maiden race scratches down to 8 runners but Barb notes too many horses with only 1 or 2 lines including some of the favorites. She likes at least 3 pacelines for the runners (right out of Doc's Followups). PASS

Woodbine July 3rd

Race 6 - a nice stakes race going 8f on the grass. Barb scrolled the field twice just looking, then marking running styles and picking pacelines. She feels comfortable with playing the race and hiding using her "RX" tab she hides down to her top 4 contenders for the win which are in order: 1-5-2-9.

She feels the 1 is going to be heavily bet, leaving her other 3 contenders at nice prices. Barb has the #5 as definitely one of her bets, she is looking to play this race!

As far as counter energy runners Barb has the #'s 3 and 4 as counter early, however she has them as NON contenders for the WIN leaving OTE as the winning "Style" for this race.

Woodbine July 3rd

Race 7 - Barb is very comfortable with this race! After scrolling and doing her thing she has the field down to the 1a-5-1-4-6. Now because she has both the 1 entries in her mix she wants to remove one knowing she has them covered, doing this leaves 1a-5-4-6 and Barb does NOT have a good feeling about the #6 for the WIN.

** Barb's readouts are showing ALL runners after picking her lines with a computer generated ESP of L (Late). Doc has stated in earlier Followups that they used to focus on the late energy/ latest or longest late sticks for the WIN in these race types. In THIS race Barb has the #4 Macho Brew as the best in both of those categories as well as a strong contender in her new "RX" line. Old school meets new school!

NO counter energy runners.

Barb is going to work another 2 maybe 3 races on the card including the Queens Plate!. She couldnt leave that one out!

She is going to use the same exact process on those races, however I have to leave to head to a party in a few minutes so wont be able to report on them before they run. I will talk to Barb in the next couple of days and will report what went down.

:)

Hello Barb and Rich

In race 2 are you using line 7 ? for horse 1

I'm so sorry I do not have my RDSS2 computer with me, Its a long story but basically my lady friend needs some of my "pay" programs for her business.

So me being so thoughtful. All I have is my old windows 7 8 inch screen nextbook and RDSS just will not work on this baby

ANYWAY Horse 1 are you using line 7 or was this a typo ?

Thank you
Bill

Code:

              WO0703 2 6.0 D OC 3+  $62,300 CP=$62,500 12:33PM              1/7

JOCK/TRAIN       R   W   P   S   W%        R  W  P  S  EARNINGS   W%      EPS  R

DASILVA, EURIC 106  27  17  16   25 LIFE  27  3  6  5   264,469   11    9,795  7

MACRAE, DONALD   1   0   1   0    0 CURR   6  0  1  0    22,482    0    3,747  5

(c) 37 /GONZALEZ $40,000            PAST   9  1  3  2   107,316   11   11,924  2

ML= 6/1                             D-SP  22  3  4  5   246,488   14   11,204  7

  1 PUNTROOSKIE              AGE=5  OFF-D

 COMMENT:

                      EQUALIZED, NORMALIZED AND ADJUSTED

L DAYSTRK RCODISTSd 1STC  2NDC  FINC   BL1   BL2   BLS   BLF  SR  ESP     L PI

1   37WO  7FM 6.5T  23.2  47.1 110.9  3.80  3.00  0.00  0.15  81          1

2[  64WO  7FT 6.5D  23.2  46.6 110.9  0.60  0.50  0.15  1.90  80          2  2 ]

3[  85WO  8FT 6.0D  22.4  45.4 109.7  2.10  2.60  3.10  5.00  83          3  1 ]

4  105GP  3FT 6.0D  22.0  44.5 109.2  1.50  2.50  7.50 11.50  78          4

5  158GP  4FT 6.0D  22.2  44.0 108.4  1.60  2.60  4.50  5.10  89          5

6  169GP  6FT 6.0D  21.5  43.7 108.1  6.50  7.50  8.60  9.50  86          6

7  294WO  3FT 6.5D  22.8  45.0 109.0  1.00  0.50  1.10  5.50  86          7

8  326WO  6FT 6.0D  23.3  46.2 109.8  0.50  1.50  2.10  4.30  83          8

9  364WO  5FT 6.5D  23.1  46.1 109.7  1.00  2.00  0.50  0.00  87          9

A  385WO  8FT 6.0D  22.5  45.1 109.6  3.70  2.00  2.00  0.00  88          A

                                    DETAILS

L TYPE           PU/CP JOCKEY         PP FN FD    ODDSF COMMENT

1 CL-3+         40,000 CAMPBELL, JESS  5  2 11    4.30  BMP START,CAUGHT LATE

2[OC-3+NW2      62,500 CAMPBELL, JESS  2  4  7    3.50  BMP'D STR,PASSED       ]

3[ST-4+        125,000 CAMPBELL, JESS  1  4  6    7.20  2W3W,EVEN FINISH       ]

4 OC-4+NW2      62,500 LOPEZ, PACO     6  6  6    4.80  CHASED4W,CHECKED1/8

5 OC-4+C       100,000 LEZCANO, JOSE   3  5  6   19.70  ANGLED OUT1/8,NO GAIN

6 ST-4+S       150,000 GAFFALIONE, TY  7  4  8   19.10  3W-TURN,SOME LATE RUN

7 G3-3+        150,000 CAMPBELL, JESS  4  3  4   11.90  GAVE WAY GRDGNGLY

8 ST-3+        100,000 CAMPBELL, JESS  3  5  6   10.40  PRESS,BID STR,EVN OUT

9 OC-3+NW2      62,500 CAMPBELL, JESS  6  1  9    1.50* LED IN FINAL 1/8,DRVG

A OC-3+NW2      62,500 CAMPBELL, JESS  3  2 10    1.60* OFF SLW,FOUND MORE

                                   WORK OUTS

 5E(FT)WO : 59.0B  5E(FT)WO : 58.6B  4D(FT)GP : 48.5B  5D(FT)GP : 58.7B

 4D(FT)GP : 46.7B  4D(FT)GP : 51.2B  3F(FT)WO : 37.4B  5E(FT)WO :100.4B

                                   FREQUENCY

WORK OUTS    8   46  124  176  186  196  295  343  443  505  540  549

RACES       37   64   85  105  158  169  294  326  364  385  413  434

                                 INSTRUCTIONS

No typo Bill - line 7 - BPC - looking at all PPs.

thank you Barb

Race 2 I used your lines. The winner #1 is a Binder Improver but only paid $6.00

Code:

             WO0703 2 6.0 D OC 3+  $62,300 CP=$62,500 12:33PM



                      BOTTOM LINE -- BETTING LINE (VAL4)



HIDE#  PNcNAME LdT  SR  BAL    LS TIE ODDS   TRKDISTS  M/L DAYS AGE



    5   7 KITTE3 1  87    6  19.8      2-1   WO  6.0D  9/2   23   6



    4   5 JACKS3    89    6  18.5      5-2   WO  6.0D 12/1  211   4



    2   2 BEAR 3 1  87    6  18.3      5-2   WO  6.0D 15/1   15   8



    3   3 NASHV1    87    7  17.8      5-2   WO  6.5D  3/1   28   4



    1   1 PUNTR7    86    5  17.3      5-2   WO  6.5D  6/1   37   5











                     SYNTHESIS POWER RANKINGS AND FRACTALS

                  ┌──┬─┬─┬────┬────┐┌─────┐          │    PRIM     │  SUPP   │

                  │ B│L│T│PRIM│SUPP││FRACT│          │E│L│C│T│H│F│F│S│F│E│T│T│

┌─┬───────────┬───┤ A│S│O├──┬─┼──┬─┤├─┬─┬─┤┌───┬────┐│P│P│P│T│E│W│X│P│X│N│S│P│

│#│PNcNAME LdT│ SR│ L│P│T│LS│R│LS│R││E│L│N││ESP│SCBL││R│R│R│ │ │ │ │N│ │T│ │P│

├─┼───────────┼───┼──┼─┼─┼──┼─┼──┼─┤├─┼─┼─┤├───┼────┤├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┼─┤

│1│ 1 PUNTR7  │ 86│ 5│3│1│23│5│12│2││4│2│2││PRE│ 4.4││4│3│4│3│2│4│3│4│3│2│1│2│

│2│ 2 BEAR 3 1│ 87│ 6│2│4│20│3│22│5││3│5│5││EAR│    ││1│5│3│2│4│1│4│4│4│5│4│5│

│3│ 3 NASHV1  │ 87│ 7│4│5│21│4│13│3││2│3│3││E/P│ 4.2││3│2│2│4│5│3│2│2│2│3│3│3│

│4│ 5 JACKS3  │ 89│ 6│4│2│19│2│ 8│1││1│1│1││S/P│ 6.1││5│1│1│5│3│3│1│3│1│1│2│1│

│5│ 7 KITTE3 1│ 87│ 6│1│3│17│1│17│4││5│4│4││EAR│ 0.3││2│4│2│1│1│2│5│1│5│4│3│4│

└─┴───────────┴───┴──┴─┴─┴──┴─┴──┴─┘└─└─┴─┘└───┴────┘└─┴─┴─┴─┴─┴─┴─┴─┴─┴─┴─┴─┘

Validator

WO0

Code:

703 2 6.0 D OC 3+  $62,300 CP=$62,500 12:33PM



                         THE  V A L I D A T O R (VAL4)



┌─┬───────────┬───┬───┬────────┐  ┌───┬───┬───┬───┬──┬──┬──┐  ┌──────┐  ┌────┐

│#│PN NAME LdT│SPR│BAL│   TOT-R│  │EPR│LPR│CPR│ TT│FW│HE│FX│  │V/DC-T│  │SUPP│

├─┼───────────┼───┼───┼────────┤  ├───┼───┼───┼───┼──┼──┼──┤  ├──────┤  ├────┤

│1│ 1 PUNTR7  │ 86│  5│171.44-1│  │  4│  3│  4│  3│ 4│ 2│ 3│  │     2│  │   2│

├─┼───────────┼───┼───┼────────┤  ├───┼───┼───┼───┼──┼──┼──┤  ├──────┤  ├────┤

│2│ 2 BEAR 3 1│ 87│  6│171.06-4│  │  1│  5│  3│  2│ 1│ 4│ 4│  │     3│  │   5│

├─┼───────────┼───┼───┼────────┤  ├───┼───┼───┼───┼──┼──┼──┤  ├──────┤  ├────┤

│3│ 3 NASHV1  │ 87│  7│170.57-5│  │  3│  2│  2│  4│ 3│ 5│ 2│  │     3│  │   3│

├─┼───────────┼───┼───┼────────┤  ├───┼───┼───┼───┼──┼──┼──┤  ├──────┤  ├────┤

│4│ 5 JACKS3  │ 89│  6│171.36-2│  │  5│  1│  1│  5│ 3│ 3│ 1│  │     1│  │   1│

├─┼───────────┼───┼───┼────────┤  ├───┼───┼───┼───┼──┼──┼──┤  ├──────┤  ├────┤

│5│ 7 KITTE3 1│ 87│  6│171.07-3│  │  2│  4│  2│  1│ 2│ 1│ 5│  │     1│  │   4│

└─┴───────────┴───┴───┴────────┘



  └───┴───┴───┴───┴──┴──┴──┘  └──────┘  └────┘

Barb and Richie,

Thank you for sharing your criteria of the races to play and your method of evaluating contenders and deciding which horses to bet. It's very helpful. What jumped out at me immediately is that I am betting too many races. I was traveling yesterday and unable to play. Going back over the card this morning, however, I know that I would have bet several of the races that Barb passed and wisely so.

Looking forward to Woodbine in August.