Howdy
 

Hi everyone. Well Jim's passing brought me out of lurker mode, so I thought I would formally say hello.

I've been away from racing for a while as my job and travel keeps me so busy, but I still hear from old friends (some of them older than others lol) and still answer questions when I can.

Back in the old PIRCO hayday my dad and I stayed in contact with the core group, then when Jim and I started working on AODDS (all versions), and The Match Up, and Bob Cochran and I started working on WorkHorse Pro, I sort of lost contact with everyone. Then when I started working full time as a programmer and traveling a lot I just dropped racing. I still miss the old days and wish I were still doing racing things, and on a few occasions Jim and I had talked about updating AODDS, but I just never found the time.

Anyway, I just wanted to say Howdy to everyone since some of you have already seen my name pop up in a post and confirm, yes, it really is me. :)

Randy

Welcome Randy
 

Randy, good to here from you. Just wanted to welcome you to the Pace and Cap board. Bill "Binder" does a great job with this BBS.

Randy: Have only heard good things about your programming and its quality through the various "grapevines" as it relates to both A Odds and Workhorse.

Welcome Randy, from one programmer to another:)

Ted

Hi Randy,

Welcome to the board. We have conversed before on the old Yahoo Work Horse Board. I am glad you came out of lurker mode. I am sure you will be a great asset here. From what I have seen and personally observed, you did a great job programming Work Horse and Aodds Super Gold. Both are really good programs and still effective today, despite their age. After all, the horses still go round in circles.

Hope to see you post here often and get back into racing!

Jim

Thanks guys. Nice to be here.

Nice meeting you Ted, always good to meet other programmers (especially racing related).

Thanks Jim, it amazes me as well how well the programs have held up all these years. WorkHorse still has the same percentage as the day it was written if you keep up the database properly, and AODDS still gets the big ones. My dad uses both and is always hounding me to make changes. I know people that still use the old DOS version of AODDS, hard to believe it's 15 years old (I still know people that use the old Energy, and that's like 20 years old). :eek:

Randy

Hi Randy its good to see you once again. Hope everything is great with you.

emilio

Greetings, Randy! Great to have you here!

Regards,

Jon

Hi Randy,Which program did you prefer A Odds or The Match Up?I was having trouble installing The Match Up program and Jim kindly gave me the password to get it working.Jeff

Well I think MatchUp gave a more concise picture, but I liked the database feature of AODDS. Jim and I differed on that, and he didn't want the database added to MatchUp. So personally, it would have to be AODDS.

Although, ultimately I prefer WorkHorse Pro 2 for quicker picks (less thinking lol).

Randy

Was the Match-up a windows program? And what time frame did it come out as compared to WHPro2 and AoddsGold98? Thanks.

Jim

Jim, yes, it was a Windows app. We wrote it to coincide with Jim's first MatchUp book (around '97). We didn't sell a lot of them, and stopped selling them after AODDS98 came out (around Oct '98).

Randy

If somebody has the Match-up windows program, could they upload a screen shot of it? I would like to see what it looked like? Thanks.

Jim

I have the Help file, it has screen shots. I can upload that you're interested (I have the program too but the help has everything in it).

Randy

That would be nice Randy. I was interested in what some of the main screens looked like. The help file would be neat, especially if it explained what some of the items on the screen were. Thanks in advance for your time.

Jim

PS...Randy, you mentioned WHPro. I have found that the odds line portion of the program did a good job of getting contenders. I never had great luck with using the database for contender selection. My guess was that the database smaller samples sometimes over emphasized certain factors to the detriment of others. I definitely had better luck using the program without the database.

No problem. It was the precursor to AODDS98. Many of the features in it became part of AODDS98.

Unfortunately it looks like the size is larger than the max allowed. PM me your email address and I will email it to you.

I also have the AODDS98 and WorkHorse Manuals.

Randy

RE WHPro, a lot of times, especially in the beginning of meets, no database worked better. The real key to the database was to have enough matches and especially, you needed to fix the results many times as there were problems and the full result didn't get ingested (there was an entire section in the manual about fixing results).

Randy

Randy,

You have been pm'd. I chuckle when I think of all the time I spent fixing results files to put into Work Horse. It was really a pain when there was scratches as the bris file would have the same race in there twice. Ironically enough, after I stopped maintaining a database, they seem to have fixed their results files.

Jim

Yeah, it was a huge pain. I even had to go to extra lengths to allow it to only use the last occurrence of the race in the results. But then they would put the wrong date internally if they fixed it after midnight.

Ahhhh the good ole days.

Randy

Randy,

Thanks for sending but I had a little problem opening after extracting and sent you a follow-up email.

Jim

Here are the screens

Yep, as you can see, everything except the MatchUp Screen made it into AODDS98.

Randy

Randy,Then did Jim prefer The Match UP program,when I originally bought the program the book came with it.I guess I was one of the few who bought it.Jeff

Jim liked both programs, but he didn't need them. He would just look at form and pick his horses. I used to marvel at his ability when I saw him do it. My dad used to get longshots and raz Jim about not having it, and without breaking stride Jim would say to him, "You aren't supposed to get those horses, you'll never win going after them."

Randy

That's what I thought you might say.

Sounds Like Jim
 

Randy, I think I probably heard Jim say much the same thing at several Sartin seminars. I wish I could remember all the exact quotes that Jimmy used to make. He never believed in beating around the bush and he would answer your questions in a very direct way even though his answer was maybe not the one you were looking for but correct anyway.

Randy,
I just want to say Hi, and thak you for all of your help with workhorse and helping me be able to reinstall in a different computer.
Ira

Hey Ira, anytime, always glad to assist. How goes it?

Houndog, yep, Jim was a no-nonsense kind of guy. And you're right, he had a lot of quotes that I wish I would have written down.

Randy

Interesting Quote from The Hat
 

Interesting quote from “The Hat” in capping for some types of longshots:
"You aren't supposed to get those horses, you'll never win going after them."

JB, from my limited experience with him through his writings and comments to others especially here at P&C, wanted a high percentage of winners on any given card or tracks that he was playing. His concepts on The Match Up I believe more often then not pick solid contenders. To live on or try for longshots in most races necessarily allows for only a low win percent, let us say about 10%. It is my understanding that The Hat was about winning in the 70% range and he better then most could get there consistently.

I wonder that as a want to be successful capper do you have to make a decision or understand early on as to what kinds of contenders your chosen methodology will provide and their generally corresponding odds range? In order to go after real longshots all of the time requires looking at the race differently then let us say “The Hat” would normally and that was the basis for his comment?

Thanks,

Robert

I think if you are a paper and pencil kind of handicapper that you probably do want to make that decision early, to create your "Match Up Eyes" so to speak you need to be able to focus into true contenders early.

Jim never cared if a horse could come in place or show, all he used to say as he looked down a race was, "He can't win, he can't win, he can't win" and he could get down to his choice. He was right a very large amount of time, but not always.

I think that is where software shows it's strength, as it allows you to key into things you may not have been looking for or focusing on, like when a 12:1 is a huge overlay, and while he may not be able to win, you better include him in an exacta or tri.

I have seen for myself it work the other way too, where you get so dependant on software you forget how to "handicap". It's like using a GPS and turning into a lake because it says, "Right turn here". There has to be a balance, and the real art is finding that balance.

Randy

Randy,
what criteria was used to define the Value Percentage Points, in Pace Calculator?
lbj

Hi lbj,

I believe those are the Angle Percentage Points from the original Pace Calculator manual. I wrote that back in '97, and haven't looked at it in years, so my memory is foggy on what was on the screen. Sorry.

Randy

Just today, opening day at Belmont WHPro hit the 6th race exacta & triple cold $131.50 & $617.00 respectively, I had the winner & a $5 exacta, yes it was another good day for me & WHPro. Still, the biggest ticket I ever cashed was a $4K trifecta back in 2005 that I cobbled together using AOdds. Randy, it appears that both your programs have stood the test of time.

Hi Randy, what is the reason that you can't pick the results into aodds98 at the Oaktree meet.

There is no problem putting in the results at SAX meets, but at the Oaktree meet Osax it does not work.

emilio

Yeah that change happened after the support stopped. I am not sure what the issue is, and have never checked into it (as I stopped making changes to the software). Sorry.

Randy

Very nice! There are several users that report using both apps to get contenders or selections. They seem to work well together.

Randy

Emilio,

It has to do with the program's failure to recognize the 3 digit code "OSA". There is a file in Super Gold named AODDSTRK.ALL If you open the file with an editor and add the track code, the results should save properly for the Oak Tree Meet. If you decide to add the track code, be sure to add to the total at the top of the file as that is the total number of codes in the file. I also had to add CNL and PID over the years.

If you decide to modify, back up the original file first, in case there is a problem.

Jim

Hi Jim,

Would you also need to update the Tracks.ini file too?

Joe.

Joe,

To my knowledge, there is no such file in Aodds Super Gold. As memory serves me, the file you refer to is in Work Horse Pro. And yes, I have updated that one before as well.

Jim

Yes, AODDSTRK.ALL is for the old AODDS55 DOS version, Tracks.INI is for the Windows version.

One thing to note is the track abbreviation has to match the result abbreviation, so if the result is OSA the file would also have to be OSA (the program only does three letters). So if the file is SAX and the result is OSA, they wouldn't match. So keep that in mind too.

Randy