Pace and Cap  - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up

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-   -   The best (http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5079)

Tim Y 01-23-2009 02:35 PM

The best
 
having been educated in an environment where factual validity requireed scientific testing, I applaud BIG TIME the work of Charles Carroll as I re-read, for the fourth time now HANDICAPPING SPEED :A critical look at the science of speed handicapping

His rigorous scientific PROOF, his novel approach, his historically accurate model that includes both the short spurts of the quarter horse on up to the middle routes of the thoroughbred warranted the comment by Dr. Howard Sartin "This is a work for those who read handicapping books for more than just some mechanical process for selecting winners."

A marvelous look at the inside of racing too as I applaud what he has written about the photo finish (my job now for two years) and the fallacy of accurate workouts meaning much other than frequency of exercise.

GREAT BOOK

clore1030 01-23-2009 03:07 PM

Now you've mentioned two of my favorite books on handicapping, "The New Expert Handicappers" and the Carroll book.

In the latter, just the chapter on variants will raise some eyebrows.

For years I used a spreadsheet that combined elements of both "Pace Makes The Race" and "Handicapping Speed." It worked rather well, but the manual data entry made it rather time consuming to consider multiple pace lines and as I get older, mental fatigue and eye strain play too much of a factor in my success.

tom 01-23-2009 04:14 PM

I have only skimmed the book...what is it he proved in it?
I only saw the stuff about using the world records and the beaten lengths stuff.
He discounts track variants, if I remember correctly?
Got to sit down with that one, as soon as my "snuggie" arrives. ;)

Tim Y 01-23-2009 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom (Post 47368)
I have only skimmed the book...what is it he proved in it?

The uniformity of speed no matter the breed.

shoeless 01-23-2009 05:41 PM

1)Calibration Handicapping by Jim Lehane

2)Fast and Fit Horses by Bob Heyburn [Doc recommendation]

Charlie D 01-23-2009 05:57 PM

In no particular order

Modern Pace Handicapping - Brohamer

The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion - Sartin Methodolgy

Jim Bradshaws Match Up concepts - Hat Check area


Top class handicapping material IMHO

Tim Y 01-23-2009 06:07 PM

If people want the same HUM DRUM approach their brains will never attain the plasticity that makes you a survivor. CHALLENGE what is different, don't regurgitate the commonplace.

Read the great book The Brain that Changes Itself...marvelous work that will, I predict, change the way CVA patients (stroke) will be rehabilitated in the future.

The road to enlightenment is eclectic not repetitive.

Charlie D 01-23-2009 06:25 PM

The Match Up has been going on since before i was born and it will probably still be going on after i'm dead


Phil Bull Matched horses, from this Timeform was born and still chugging along
Beyer Matched horses using speedfigs and still chugging along
Brohamer Matched horses using FPS and it's still chugging along

The name of the game is horse ability v horse ability - always has been and always will be

shoeless 01-23-2009 06:31 PM

Tim,You really shouldnt pass judgement I doubt if you have read either of them,some very interesting concepts in both.

Tim Y 01-23-2009 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoeless (Post 47401)
Tim,You really shouldnt pass judgement I doubt if you have read either of them,some very interesting concepts in both.

All of these books are promoting short cuts..

THERE AREN'T any

shoeless 01-23-2009 11:25 PM

I have had the pleasure to speak with Jim Lehane and besides being one of the nicest guys you want to talk to he is also a very astute handicapper.I really have not heard of many people who have gotten his book and has been disappointed with it.

tom 01-24-2009 12:43 AM

Jeff....
Jim is one of the sharpest guys I know - he is a good writer, too. He uses many of the same concepts that Tim rambles on and on about (Pace/Pace) to evaluate how horses distribute their energy. Last thing I would call his work is a short cut. A lot of his ideas translate very well to velocity type programs.

Charlie D 01-24-2009 01:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Bill, Hope this is OK

A Top Class bit of writing and thinking imho

The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion - Page 1

Bill V. 01-24-2009 03:06 AM

More than
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie D (Post 47421)
Bill, Hope this is OK

A Top Class bit of writing and thinking imho

The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion - Page 1

Charlie, Its perfect

Bill

RichieP 01-24-2009 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoeless (Post 47417)
I have had the pleasure to speak with Jim Lehane and besides being one of the nicest guys you want to talk to he is also a very astute handicapper.I really have not heard of many people who have gotten his book and has been disappointed with it.

Calibration Handicapping is a complete A-Z methodology written by a fantastic human being. His ideas are contrarian and he covers in detail things such as value finding and wager construction.

Like Jeff, Tom and others I would recommend it HIGHLY to anyone asking.

VoodooFan 01-24-2009 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie D (Post 47421)

A Top Class bit of writing and thinking imho

The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion - Page 1

There it is.

Thats why there'll NEVER be another Doc.

A TRUE MAESTRO of various instruments and orchestration.

Who but Doc could take Brohamer, Bradshaw, Ainsle, Quirin, use their concepts, apply and/or improve their application, AND have them all on board?

Who else could blend together such diversity in methods and applications, then blend them to a methodology for the average user?

The Sartin Methodology is like the Phil Harmonic Orchestra.....something for everyone....if you like violins, then listen and only focus on the violins.

He could talk like Brohamer and get into stats and trainers all the while getting the best out of that endeavor, or he could get down and dirty like THE HAT.

He will encompass anything that brought consistant results, day in, day out.

This guy could , in one conversation, talk about track surfaces, then talk about Phase 1 or talk about UltraScan...., he could basically fit into whatever methodology the user comprehends and get the best out of that user's chosen plan of attack.

Remarkable.

Intellectually agile,flexible, timely, all the while getting the best experience and results for both inquirer and host.

A TRUE intellectual virtuoso.

An uncanny ability and almost PERFECT balance of Art and Science...most have one or more of the other.

Interpretation of mainstream concepts and to test them in such a manner as to have them user friendly to average handicappers application bringing in consistant profitable results well beyond mainstream reality and imagination only spells out TRUE intellectual humility.

Average user "problems" and hurdles only LED to more advanced concepts,programs and usage.

And thats why the Sartin Methodology has been the real pioneer, in truth, to winning results.

Quick to shuck mainstream concepts/methods that the average user could'nt make work consistantly, which is why mainstream authorities never will give the Sartin Methodology the adulation and respect it deserves.

They'll watch, learn, lay in the shadows, steal, copy, imitate, all in silence.

Doc always gave credit to mainstream authors, hardly ever the reverse is true.

NEVER afraid to steer a persons in the direction of a book by mainstream authors, if he felt it could help them win.

Even when some mainstreamers steer inquirer toward Doc, its mentioned "under-the-breath" with the speed and passion of a disclaimer at the end of car commercials.

Like a quick flash of a second and a half of about 400+ words of disclaimers and fine print at the end of a car or pharmaceutical commercial.

The closest they'll recommend is Brohamer, they consider him one of them because he never writes in a style as to "challenge" mainstream anecedotes and maxims.

They at best , whisper or belch out "Sartin", once, in passing.

VoodooFan

uncleroughy 01-25-2009 12:05 AM

A wonderful tribute by Voodoo Fan to a GREAT MAN, our DOC.


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