Newbie saying hello
 

Hi everyone


I am new here and could use a little prodding on which way to go, I have been on only a few other boards, PA, DerbyTrail, and HSH board.

Please let me know where I should go to read, and study, and I will explain what I am looking for as that may help you to show me where to go.

I drive all day long, and right now I have Dick Mitchell's 12 pack of DVD's to listen all day long, over and over and over, but to me it seems Dick uses everyone elses idea's, well maybe he may have a few original, but all thru-out the dvd's he refer's to Quinn and Cramer ,Quirin, and even Sartin once or twice, and I think he deliberately left out Beyer, oh well. But back to my situation, you know how there are Book's on Tape/CD's and then DVD's as a way to learn , well if there are anything like that here it would be perfect for me, otherwise I amy be forced to listen to Howard Stern, instead of Sartin, please do not let that happen to me, thank you.


I thank you all for the privilege of letting me join your board.

Patrick

You've come to the right place.. My start was with Brohammers book and I am a user and a lover of Spec160 along with some homegrown stuff. RDSS has replaced SPec160 but it has a Spec160 mode... Ted Craven in the RDSS session is the RDSS guru.. Additionally some folks follow the matchup which was created by the late Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw... Richie is the guru in that area... Good luck

Welcome Patrick,

You are well know to some of us, from your posts at PaceAdvantage! Though I hadn't yet communicated with you there, I have read many of the conversations and see clearly your desire and passion for racing AND winning (and some do not possess both). From everything I've assimilated from what Doc ever said, passion and honesty to look at yourself and at what works (and thus what doesn't) is what it takes for success (and not only in racing).

I think you have access to the Pace and Cap Sartin Library. In there you will find many, many audios of Sartin seminars past which you can download and burn to CD or MP3, however you like to listen. (I think our fearless leader, Bill V, himself a truck driver, does this quite often during the day - when he's not handicapping and posting while holding the wheel between his knees :eek:). In the Library also are all the issues of he Follow Up Journal of the Sartin Methodology, documenting Docs whole odyssey from 25 years ago to when he stopped in 2001. I'd recommend starting with Issue #70 and slowly working your way forward to gain concept. Some of the portrayals of software have aged, and software has updated to the modern era, but concept is important, concept on analysing contenders, on deciding wagers, on developing the crucial positive self-image and mental skills to win at pari-mutuel risk-taking.

I know you know a lot about this, from other points of view, but you could possibly consider, if you want, your time spent here as a sort of experiment in whether a blinkered approach utilizing Sartin's concepts, tools, software etc can get you closer to your goals. If not, after asking for all possible assistance, and after doing all possible work on your own - if you find it has not been worthwhile, then judge it accordingly, but hopefully take with you good friendships made and perhaps a few useful lessons.

I would urge you to challenge any and all understandings (your own, and others here) - get folks to help you understand what they understand. Put up a 1000 races (if you have to) and ask how someone else would have analysed then wagered it (or passed it). At least, don't walk away without every attempt to get inside the minds of those who, by their writing, their records, or their 'vibe' appear to you to be winners - both financially and mentally/emotionally/spiritually.

Very best wishes!

Ted

Hi Patrick,

I have followed your exploits on various boards and have no doubt you have NOW landed in the right place. Sartin Methodology takes pace handicapping to a whole new level. Take your time and I have no doubt you will come to appreciate the information that our leader Bill has put together along with many members of this board.

What you will NOT find here is information on connections (trainer/jockey). What you will find here is what you need to succeed. A good foundation in pace methods that will work with patience and practice.

You will also find some of the nicest people on a horse racing board right here. With few exceptions egos are kept in check ;), and there is an overall helpful spirit here. :)

Read and study the follow ups, listen to tapes, search this board, then ask questions about anything that needs clarification. Best of luck and welcome to the board.

Jim

If you learn to use the methodology to the extent of deep understanding (via LOTS of practice) you will have made a quantum leap (like I did years ago) over EVERYONE stuck in their archaic way of analysis.

IT is the HORSE and how he runs and projects today vs. today's field that matters. All the rest is noise.

FORGET any steadfast rules and LET THE PROGRAM dictate your choices. Put in MORE than a single line or a horse to negate sample error. Forget any man made limit to beaten lengths as many an improving horse is hidden by using that arcane 7.5 beaten lengths rule.

Welcome Patrick
 

Patrick I have also read many of your posts on the PA and HSH board as well. Ted has given you some excellent advice on how to get up to speed with the Sartin Methodology.

The only thing I have to add is that we have people here that have expertise in the many Sartin programs that have been released through the years. I am probably going to miss a few people here and don't want to put anyone on the spot but in no particular order listed our the programs and people that know the programs quite well.

RDSS- Ted Craven; Richie; Bill (Binder)
Spec160 - Tim Y
Validator - Bill (Binder)

We also have people that use the older manual entry Energy/THOROMATION programs as well as the Synergism programs II-III-IV.

Good Luck in your quest and welcome aboard.

Thank you all

I will look into the library, and into Verizon wireless about downloads, as unbeknownst to me their unlimited downloads are not unlimitied, and they have throttled my speed before becuase I di not not this, and decide to watch movies from Netflix and after halve the first movie I was over the limit, but all that means is that I find a wireless hotspot and download from there.

I do not , no ,I have not used an MP3 before, but have a CD player in my truck and a portable DVD player too, and my very very fragile laptop, what would be the best way to start listening to things from the library, as I mentioned , actually reading will be harder, as I need glassess now , and I am still coming to terms with that, but think I got it under control, but still only have one pair of reading glassess, which are conviently lost or left behind, but that will be taken care of soon when I buy a dozen pair from Wal-mart and put them all over the place, and also carry one with me at all times, 1 step at a time.

Again thanks for the welcome.

Patrick

PS: Who wins the Derby? # 6 #13 #16 #10 #11
To me it is wide open, just curious?

Vz
 

Hello sir

I hope you can get up and running I thank Ted for the nice words
about my use of the program while I'm on the road
I use a VZ Access air card from Verizon. It works real well
almost 100% able to connect and stay conected
I pay a flat fee, about $39 a month With my air card
I can do races and play the mp3 files in the library
on my Laptop It works. Just as you know tie that baby down
as sudden stops will send the labtop flying

Wishing you the best and welcome to a friendly place
Read - Learn - Win - have fun - Enjoy life
Bill

MP3 Files
 

Patrick I would venture a guess that MP3's will not play on your truck's cd player unless you have the newer model cd players that can play MP3's as well.

Your portable DVD player may be a possibility since some can play MP3's.

otherwise I amy be forced to listen to Howard Stern, instead of Sartin, please do not let that happen to me, thank you.



I will tell you one thing Stern is a hell of alot funnier.

Welcome Patrick

Welcome Patrick!
I hope you find the site informative. There are very sincere,knowledgeable caring folks here.
:)

Bill I do also use the Verizon Air Card to get online too, it works very well for me , but is 60.00 a month,??


Question concenring MP3's, are they not the things that play in Ipod's or only on my my laptop, forgive my ignorance of this, but I am new to this stuff, I remember 8 track's and vinyl records, then came the cassette tape, wow, now there is too much and I know too little.

I would love to get started listening to something soon, and I am aware of Doc's reputation and his Pace handicapping style, but that is whrree it ends, and I could be wrong on that, but what if I staretd at the beginning, listening that is, with little reading at first, post reading and small article's 2-12 pages would be fine, but books with 100's of pages are not my strong suit, sorry but I am only be honest here.

Would some one be willing to help me develop a course plan, or a systematic way to go thru the library's resources, or any tht someone's wishes to share with, as I am open to your reccomendation's, y'all have been there and done it, and I wish to get there , but step by step , if possible, that way I do not overwhelm myself with too much info, and no knowledge of what it means.


I hope this is makes sense and I look forward to beginning soon, I am at your mercy, thank you.

Patrick

There is NOBODY better able to get you started in right direction with Doc and his concepts than the man himself Bill V!

Hand taught one on one by the Doc in his offices in Cali.

He also happens to be a "truck driver" like you!
:);)

Welcome Patrick.

I'm not very experienced and what I have done is downloaded and burnt a lot of things to a cd. That way you can play them on your truck cd player, dvd player or computer.

My goal is to someday record the followups for myself so I can listen to them too. Bill V. has been doing this. I don't know how far along he is with them.

Someone else on this site (I can't remember who) introduced me to "no squint" which is a Firefox add on. If you use Firefox as your internet browser, you can add this. It is tremendous. You just press control and use your mouse wheel to increase the size of the print. The best thing is, it remembers that site if you go back to it again.

I hope this helps. Best of luck.

Barb

[QUOTE=barb craven;53373]Welcome Patrick.



My goal is to someday record the followups for myself so I can listen to them too. Bill V. has been doing this. I don't know how far along he is with them.



Hi Barb
Good morning
I have a bunch of the POW's recorded. I was going to post them but
I sound like a dope. I do think its a great thing and I learn so much
hearing my own voice

Bill

Barb

I think the thing you describe so that it would play on my truck CD player would be awesome, only one thing, How to do it, and then what to start with, maybe Bill may have a suggestion.


Maybe if I got a box of CD's, any special type needed???, then what, as I never burned anything except my dinner once in awhile, but can follow directions, somewhat, and do know the computer lingo pretty well too.


MP3's play on the computer only, but can be converted to CD's to be play in my truck's Cd player correct?

patrick

Hello again

Without sounding like an Newbie, but I am, this is all too overwhelming to me, and have no idea where to begin and what to try 1st.

Consider myself HS educated, not a College level knowledge of all these mystical fraction and equations floating around here, or was I that good in Miss Green's english class either, she was of course Miss Green, boy what a long time ago, but as stated before I gues MP3 are readiky available here to Download, awesome, i know what download is, and MP3 is, but then I am baffled as to how to aquire them for my listening pleasure, someone stated an MP3 player, never seen one, how much, and how to use it and , then how to get the MP3 files onto it, by downloading of course, but help me here please, Bill seems to have mastered this as he stated here was a truck driver, but maybe when Derby dies down I could get a few PM's or a few people could call and explain what to do...Please


But, then the MAIN THING, what to download and where to begin, which method do I start to study, I normally go with the easiest 1st and then progress to more complicated ones after that, I still have and use HSH, downloads for ma have been paid for till Jan 2010, so I might as well continue with it too, but it seems that most here have 2-3 porgrams too, am I right?


I know I was told go thru the library here and look around , I did and I got no where, really, I did not know what to look forand when I was looking and listening , actually what it was, well , not true I did know where it came from and who they were, but it was like listening over somebody's else's shoulder to something you know nothing about, but feel that you should, know what I mean, any parent will know exactly what I am talking about it.

I do hope I am not being to asking, or befuddled here, but i do not also wish to waste time looking and then coming back to ask later.

Thanks

PM for phone number

patrick

Hi again Patrick.

If I may - I think I would go into the library and first start reading the follow-ups starting at #70 to get the gist of what all this is about. That's what I did. I know you are not new to racing, but I was until a year and a half ago.
You said you had trouble reading, but if you download that No Squint program I told you about (available if you look on Google), you will be able to make the print as large as you like.

I think then the other tapes of seminars and such will be of more value.

If there are any particular followups that you should read first, Bill would know. He knows them inside out. He would also know about MP3s. I don't use that format.

Barb

Patrick

Try here, it should point you in right direction

http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthr...earning+sartin


And if you using RDSS look for Bill V and Ted Craven demo's in RDSS forum

Thanks Charlie

It seems that i should read a few things 1st, am I correct, that part is hard for me, reading and comprehending fancy numbers/fractions and such, as I mentiioned, I'm a trucker, not a student of mathematics from MIT, a 4 finger typist with a broken computer, and i still stab on, and feel this may be work for me, but i may need to adjust how i learn it so I may learni it, if that makes sense, hope it did.


I really would like to try to learn this as you all seem so nice and happy here, no griping and complaining this doesn't work and so forth, i like that, but I am a person with out many hours a day to read and study , but can study thru audio or dvd watching as Idrive all day doing nothing, but will that actually work and is there anything that fulfills that for me, reading manuals are a must I am sure, but just be honest here, they are hard for me to comprehend with out help, with help , i can do anything I feel, why not.


well gotta run go too many miles to do today, don't ask how many cause it is too many.

thanks again
patrick

Yes, read Bill V's post on that link and the Manuals, Follow Ups he advises. Bill has also started a new forum "Welcome to The Sartin Methodology" for any questions newbies have regarding the Sartin Methodology


Don't worry Patrick, you don't need a degree in Mathematics, you just need to understand The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion. In other words, The Match Up

The match-up, okay sounds easy enough, but have a feeling it's not that easy, but thanks.

I will switch to the newbie forum you suggest too.

Patrick

Not everyone has driven a truck and i would think learning how to drive one would not be easy, but with a bit of instruction from experienced people like yourself and lots and lots of practice most people could. The same applies with The Methodology. The instruction from experienced people is in the Manual's, Follow Up's and demo's on Pace and cap.


Get stuck into reading the Manual's etc and if your not sure about anything, just ask. The experienced people are more than willing to help you and others like you.

Al the best

here is an example from the Donn Hdcp this year. Race finished 2/10. Just try to find pace lines where the entrants ran against a similar pace

You are trying to scare me off, no just kidding, to be honest with you what I see makes no sense , honest, that does scare me ,( but does not change mmy mind, once committed I get pretty stubborn, and I try not to let too much that I want to learn to become unlearnable, if that is a word, it may take a little longer with me, but learn it I will, as I see it as way to successful horse playing, then I am ready to give my best), BUT,as I see no pace lines or match ups just a few horse names I recognize, thats all.


patrick

Patrick

Presuming you'll be using RDSS, go to RDSS forum and find Glossary of terms thread by Bill V.

Kiss
 

Hey PT,

Welcome aboard. This is a great site with a lot of folks much more apt at handicapping than I. Sometimes the information posted is a bit overwhelming but don't worry just start as previously suggested and learn the basic concepts.

In my opinion you can have too much information sometimes and find yourself weaving and bobbing because you missed that last race so you must not be doing it right and then you change, etc, etc. Hence the KISS in the message box. Using the basic concepts find what works and Keep It Simple Silly. Barb is a great example of someone starting from zero and becoming a good handicapper. Follow her advice.

Ted extended development of a great program. The two hard parts are picking the correct pace line and proper wagercapping.

And just to show you how good we all are, look at the contest results.

Good Luck and don't be afraid to ask questions,

Budman:)

POW is Pyschology of Winning , right?


Patrick


310 pages of suggested beginners reading , just the manuals, not the follow-ups, whew , may be overwhelming just that number alone, especially for someone who really doesn't like to read that much, I have been spoiled with Audio books, but will have them printed up , it seems to be only a dime a page, or about 40.00, ceratainly doable for me, and will done, hopefully it will be fun reading , last real book I read was a Clancy Novel and WEB Griffin, over 10+ years ago. They were page turners, hope theses are...


Thanks Patrick

Patrick,

Check your Private Messages.

Perhaps you have grasped, but I'll attempt to state it: Pace and Cap is dedicated to the Sartin Methodology and The Match Up, which is actually a 25 year plus evolution of ideas of Doc Sartin and numerous others (e.g. Jim 'The Hat' Bradshaw). But each experienced person here came in at a different point, from decades ago to a few years ago, to yesterday, and thus brings their preferences and slant on what they've understood and what software they used or currently use, if any.

Unlike, say, HSH, or HTR, or CJ's Pacefigures, or Pizzolla's Black Magic, this Forum doesn't only focus on ONE software program (though RDSS is certainly the modern of Doc Sartin's cumulative work) - rather the binding element is the IDEAS developed by Sartin, Bradshaw et al, including the notion that the psychology of the game, the mental/emotional skills, are at least as important as the analytical and wager strategy aspects. That, plus the curious notion of a teaching community, hopefuly evocative of Sartin's practice, in his day, being a 'healing arts' organization as much as a business (or travelling salvation show, as some might put it...).

Perhaps you can understand then, that folks, seeking to be helpful, are naturally inclined to give you each their best intentioned advice, their favourite screen shots, most thumbed manuals or Follow Up journal articles - i.e. what has worked for them. I am often overwhelmed by the cumulative generosity of most folks here, and have grown in understanding by orders of magnitude in recent years.

You don't have to understand a lot of software. You can't even get that older software (legally). Use RDSS, watch the videos, establish some one-on-one tutilage. You don't need to print out the old manuals (actually most of the library PDFs can't even be printed). You have to download them via your computer anyway, they're PDFs, you can't read while driving, so read (some of) them on your computer, gradually after hours or while dining. You will also figure out how to burn the Sartin Seminars MP3 files to CD for drive-time listening. Someone will help you with that, or you will discover how to do it - it can be done.

Dive in, but take your time, get a basis for asking questions (e.g. how did RDSS point to a wager in such and such a race - then watch and participate in discussions dissecting that race; then another, then another...). Keep some records about your own selections on a 20 race session (I know you know about sessions, from Dave Schwartz' writings). Don't bet money, but develop several 20-race sessions, and work on moving up the hit rate, then the ROI, then the dollar volume. You should eventually expect to be able to hit 50 - 60% of your wagers, bets including multiple horses, and double digit ROI ongoing is not out of the question at all - but it does take a lot of work, record keeping, self-reflection. Ask for help, do your own work, help will be given.

Then teach others.

Welcome :)

Ted

Yes Ted

I did finally read my PM, and yes the support has been overwhelming, thank all of you and I believe that I now have direction to go, thanks to Ted.

I will start his suggestion, as I already Got the "M" icon my computer, Mikogo and will begin the journey here very soon, and will be here for year to come, I can just tell that all ready, lost of people here with the , according to my judgement the right thinking, and with the desire to help others too.

I will be honored to join you all, and hope I lie up to expectations, as i will do best and then some, that I promise, thank you all.


patrick

Las Vegas Seminar 1991 - Jim "The Hat" Bradshaw


The above is why people should read the Yellow Manual and The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity, The Pace line Manual etc. The information contained in those will help in understanding the Match Up concept and help in stopping handicappers entering the wrong horses into the software.

Garbage in - garbage out

I'm also a newbie trying to understand the RDSS software and Sartin Methodology. I'm curious to how do you get access to the library? I appreciate your help. Thanks!!!

-Garrison

Manyof us have DIFFERING opinions on what constitutes a garbage line.

It is not a simple as this poster characterizes it. it takes a lot of practice, review and record keeping to make sound judgments. A line from Keeneland would not be considered at one course as important as it would at another for instance.
There are many subtle factors that would negate using Presque Island Mountaineer or Philadelphia lines EVER as they are too fast transfers. You learn that with PRACTICE.

Hi Garrison, a big welcome to Pace and Cap! Best wishes, and lots of enjoyment as you get up to speed.

Re the Library, check your email.

Re opinions - they may differ ;)

Cheers,

Ted

Hi Garrison, welcome aboard