Cheap claimers
 

In response to a statement made in another thread "http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7217, I thought I would pose this question, not just to the author of that post, but to everyone reading this.

I have read several times on this site that many people have a problem with cheap claimers, so I'm curious as to the reason why.

So if you don't mind, tell us why "you" have a problem with cheap claimers.

Perhaps a discussion on the subject may help many of you who have indicated that you struggle with cheap claimers.

Well I was going to reply to that other thread last night. I mostly play tracks like Mountaineer and Penn. I don't have trouble with them as long as I cherry pick. There are certain jockeys who get the ones that are on top of the BL rank and who are bet down so low you couldn't win. But there is always one or two that are otherwise and the payouts have been good. I'm talking sprints. I am not doing routes or turf at the moment. I don't mind MC as long as there aren't too many fts.

Mnr
 

Barb,
I agree with what you say about MNR.
Certain jockeys make the odds on many contenders very ????
I am like you as I only play sprint races and find that I have to cherrie pick to find two or three possible plays. I play mostly cheap to middle class tracks, like HAW, SUFFOLK,MNR and TDN when it is downloadable and Beu. I try to find at least 3 or 4 races in the entries before I download a track.
As for the ???s about cheap tracks I have always used Doc`s guidelines of best of last three along with the + & 0`s.
I have found that my win % in the top three V/DC ranges from 55 to 75% as the class of track increases. The mutuals are usually a little higher at the lowest class tracks. I also try to keep my minimum odds at 3 or 4 to 1.
Best of luck to all.

Hi Barb and thanks for the reply.

I would say that the horses with the best form will generally get the jockey that is or is among the leading riders at the meet, that's the reason they are among the leading riders, they get the best mounts.

Don't you find that you have to "cherry pick" at every track?

Why don't you play the route races?
Do you have a particular problem with them?

Thanks for the reply.

See my comment to "Barb" regarding jockeys.

So you are already a "cheap claimer" guy. Good!

And you are "cherry picking" for prices of 3/1 or 4/1, is that correct or is there some other reason?

What, exactly, is it that you are looking for in the entries before you download a card?

Why don't you play the route races?
Do you have a particular problem with the route races?

For the Lead
 

In answer to your ?s
I use 3/1 or 4/1as my minimum acceptable odds depending on my previous win% as per a 20 race cycle. I set a goal of 60.00 min in winnings for the day an am happy to play 3 or 4 plays. Quitting when min. profit is reached.
My reason for only playing sprints is they are the most predictable and my win % over the last 20 years has always been about 7-10%higher than in routes.
When I look at the entries I am only looking to see 1. how many non maiden races there are. 2. how many horses are entered in each possible playable race.
I like at least 7 or more entries because I get better prices in these fuller fields.
I am only interested in playing a few races per day because I am living on a disability pension and 60.00 per day adds more than enough extra income
to pay my bills. I usually play 5 or 6 days per week and try not to play on Sundays.
Hope this answers your ?
Best of Luck
rmath

ps For the Lead
 

You didnot ask anything about my betting.
I usually only bet two horses from the top 3 V/DC.
I qualify from these top 3 and ties by looking at the primary line score rankings and have found certain tracks require several rankings in 3 or 4 catagoriesto all be in top 2 or 3 .
My records tell me that I get 60 to 67% of the wins from my final two or three
key contenders using this method of separating the top 3 and ties on V/DC.
I have also found that betting to win only and avoiding the exoctics works best for me.
I learned this from talking to Doc Sartin and Jimmy Bradshaw at several of the
seminars back in the 80`s.
The only time I will ever bet a fourth ranked horse is when it will pay at least 50.00.
The other reason I only play sprints is because my fourth ranked horses usually only win about 5% of the time.
In routes the fourth horse wins a higher % of the time.

Still Looking
 

Good stuff from RMath. He has been at this for many years and has developed his own method of attacking the cheap claimers.

SO I'M STILL LOOKING FOR THOSE WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH CHEAP CLAIMERS.

LET US HEAR FROM YOU.

WHAT DO YOU THINK YOUR PROBLEM IS WITH CHEAP CLAIMERS?

Hi Guys....

FTL....I'm sure your going to get little response on this question..

A better question to ask is "What tracks do you play?"
Then you'll find out that your "cheap" claimers are not even a thought.

You turn on your TV and tune in to TVG or HRTV and what do you see...New York , California, Florida, Kentucky, and Woodbine...How many 5-10 thousand claiming races are there?
95% of the people (I'm not calling then horse players) are just casual bettors looking for a good time, just like going to the movies....The other 5% are the ones that have put in hard work to make a living at horse racing. They have developed their own successful means to handicap and their preferred tracks.

You tell people that you prefer tracks like Pen National and Mountaineer and they will frown because of the cheapness compared to the Big Boys and not know of the better opportunities to be a winner in the long run.

But we wont tell them that.... :)

mike

Cheap Claimers
 

I greatly appreciate all of you discussing my "cheap claimers" remark; and yes it is true, as I can't seem to win much $$$$ on the 5-7500C.

The horses don't seem to consistently run in 1 or 2 more races in a row. I would be more than happy to have a conference call with anyone who is interested, and we could handicap a couple of "Cherry Picked" races together.

The other factor might be that I usually play only 3 tracks - Woodbine/Santa Anita/Hollywood, and I usually play on the weekend.

If you want to have a call - just let me know.

Happy Punting,
Jon

Although a conference call seems like a good idea, it would defeat the purpose here, which is to allow anyone reading this thread to benefit from the discussion.

Ok, you didn't provide much in the way of information as to the reason why you have a hard time with cheap claimers other than the fact that you don't play them very often, if at all. That and the fact that you play the major west coast tracks and Woodbine.

If cheap claimers ran "bang up" races every time out, they wouldn't be cheap claimers! So you can't expect them to show a sterling performance every time they run.

Let's start with "Graded" horses. Where else can they go? They run in graded races, that's it!

Cheap claimers on the other hand are constantly moving up and down the claiming price ladder as well as moving from one condition to another, based on their current eligibility.

So the first thing to understand is, you can't handicap cheap claimers the same way you handicap graded horses. Graded horses are running in graded races and that's it. There is nothing else to think about.

With cheap claimers it is a different ball game. The handicapper has to think a lot more. There are many different conditions such as NW2L, NW3L, NW4L, NW16M, NW16MX, NW26M, NW26MX, NW1Y, NW2Y, NW3Y and so on. You think these conditions don't matter? Think again. The handicapper has to understand each of these conditions and there are more.

Next time you are handicapping cheap claimers, pay attention to not just the claiming price, but to the condition as well. Always read the condition of the race first so you know what you are dealing with today. Then you have something to compare to when you are looking at the horses past performances.

Before you begin, make sure you have a full understanding of all the various conditions. If you don't you'll be lost before you begin.

This skims the surface and more than likely don't address all the issues that people may have with cheap claimers. If anyone has a question....just ask.

Conference call?
 

Judging by the response, there are 3-4 people who would be on the call.

It appears that all others seem to do quite well betting Cheap Claimers.

I will download a card at MNR or PENN, and post my selections and why?

Thanks for your responses, and HAPPY PUNTING!!

Jon

Looks like I can win with Cheap Claimers
 

Well - besides having a new favorite track HAWTHORNE. It would appear that even a stiff like me can win $$ on Cheap Claimers.

9th today 5K CLAIMERS @ HAWTHORNE - MY choices are 12 and 5 - WOW - 5 wins and goes off at 14-1. This horse was coming off a win.

8th @ HAWTHORNE 10K CLAIMERS - My choices are 6 and 7 - WOW - 6 wins @ 5-2.


Ted - I adore you - it really is quite impressive @ any track.

Happy Punting

Jon

I'm with you there Jon. Just the last 2 days:
Dec 2 -Delta Downs race 3 - 3 and 10, 3 wins for 23.40; Penn race 7 3 and 6, 6 wins for 12.40
Dec 3 - Golden Gate race 8 - 3 and 5 - 5 wins for 31.40, Mountaineer race 4 - 3 and 8 - 3 wins for 14.80; race 6 - 5 and 4- 5 wins for 12.40, race 7 - 5 wins for 6.80, race 9 - 9 wins for 6.60; Penn race 8 - 1 wins for 24.00
Someone asked why I don't do routes. This is why.
Charlie back a bit, had some kind remarks about my not having any preconceptions. This is why I started in the first place, to see if I could do anything just using RDSS and my models. Cheap claimer sprints is where I can make my money.