RDSS Online Group - Live Play
 

OK, here's a thread to figure out the optimal way to do a multi-party Skype group, sharing voice and screens (do we need video, don't think so, plus it eats bandwidth and I'd have to brush my hair ;-)

I have a Skype Premium subscription. I understand I can connect 10 different Skype accounts at the same time - just add them to a Contact Group. I have a Contact Group named Sartin Methodology.

When I happen to be online in Skype (which is only when I need to, not by default) I can connect 9 others to the same audio and screen discussion. Just the same as we can using TeamViewer only with fewer presentation controls and fewer people (15 using TeamViewer).

When I am not online in Skype, how do people connect to the Skype Group? Do I need to have a separate Skype account, with Premium subscription (for multi-party screen/voice sharing), for example loaded and always running on an unattended server (I have one)? I can't always have Skype going and always be part of a Skype group discussion.

And Chat (SMS) - what is the purpose of doing this via Skype - isn't that just what the P&C bulletin board is?

These are some of the logistics I don't yet understand of using a Skype Group to facilitate group live play. Anyone who has done this before, or understands this better, please feel free to share ideas here.

Right now, 1:15pm Eastern, I am online Skype and happy to talk this through with anyone. Also do some live play of perhaps Philly or Beulah?

My Skype ID is ted.craven (Huntsville, Ontario, Canada)

I suspect TeamViewer (free) is a better tool for doing live play, sharing screens and audio, and perhaps we could run some tests of that soon too (not today though, for me).

cheers,

Ted

Awesome Ted, and for TeamViewer that is what you use to hook up with us and have the freedom to use each other's computer's is it not? We were talking about how to do that just a few days ago, and wanted to talk to you about it, but getting you is difficult, so I will use others to ask you,( as your time is filled with many more important things than me), as Skype goes I am a member of 2 HSH groups, and 1 is for live play, and the other more for HSH stuff, but both are "Type Only" format's, and yes it could be done in a forum, only thing is no one wishes to. Which is sad kinda, playing live races ffor me anyway is always a way for the other guy to shine and show what he has done and how he/she has done it. And it gives you a chance to see if you are close to what they are doing, or even weirder, you both have the same horse but took way different paths to get there, that is always a natural learning experience.

https://support.skype.com/en/faq/FA9...irstPage=false


I got that from Skype support in forming Groups, right now I am a registered user of Skype, same name as here, andd talk now to others but talking only to one at a time, yet able to type to many others also. I am unaware of what the true capabilities of Skype are, but heard many people can talk in a group call, as I have had 4 people once, but I was added in from the other end, sorry.

As for the forum being able to do Live Play, sure it could, but limited to typing only, which works too. Now one thing I learned about Live Play, it is best to handicap the night before and be ready to bet when it comes around, as sometimes we get carried away and miss post times and such, as we watch the odds and go back and forth, as most people live playing do watch for odds to decide whether to pass or not. This is very good way to learn how to pass, by passing with others and seeing it is okay to watch and say I would have had it, but it did not pay enough for me, always sweet when done when others to see it too. I know it sounds crazy, but it works that way, kinda like Doc's might say, Group Therapy session's work best , becaause it is harder to fool many than it is to fool one, or something nutty like that.

I am getting off on a tangent, that the right word ? I think any of these venues would help us, IF ONLY WE USED THEM AND PARTICIPATED , that is the only way to prove what you do and also do it in an enviroment other than a contest, so you get choose what races to play and handicap, also a great learning experience, seeing what others plays and why, instead of like on PA contest's you play what they tell you, tougher , yeah maybe, but always great for learning what not to play, lol

Okay more later

Patrick

Funny stuff Ted.
I would be into live play, but i don't see the advantage of using Skype. If you have to type in Skype, you might as well just post in the selections section with screenshots and your opinion, or am i missing something?

Maybe set-up a date in advance and anyone can join in if they are into it. I'm taking a few weeks off but i would be interested in doing this in the new year.

Hoof,

I was kind of hoping someone or several would join me on Skype over the past 2 hours to test this concept, prove or disprove the efficiency of that tool as group sharing medium (voice and screen). But alas, I must sign off now and focus on a the finishing touches of this RDSS udpate.

I thought to try Skype as probably many more people use Skype than TeamViewer, though TV is a snap to download and install and it does provide more tools for control and moderation. Both provide the means to share live computer screens and share audio and video and text, but I don't know of any way to 'moderate' Skype sessions (mute audio, take control of another computer, hand off control to another session member and exit the session), whereas TV does all these and a lot more.

I've done lots of multi-party TV sessions, but no multi-party Skype sessions which is why I wanted to try, to compare.

FWIW, I will hold an open Live Skype session tomorrow (Tuesday Dec 18) at 1pm Eastern for about an hour. Anyone who wants to join then, just Skype me: ted.craven and I'll add you to the group. We can rotate showing our RDSS screens and process for working some races. We can work whatever is running then.

Then another day, we can do a trial of a multi-party TeamViewer live session, perhaps an evening. To prepare for this, folks could download and install TeamViewer 8 (www.teamviewer.com). It will be a test for me to work out logistical issues for January's online live RDSS clinics (including recording the session on a separate computer for posting here).

Ted

Patrick,

Thanks for that Skype FAQ link - I had seen those instructions for setting up a Skype Group, and it seems normal - I have half a dozen folks in a group and could invite them all, if they were online ...

Anyway, perhaps a good test of the group Skype platform meeting facilities would be to try it tomorrow (my suggested 1pm time above). Let's see what the pros and cons are. Like Hoof mentioned, I can't see the benefits of only using text. It will be dynamite to have live screens, live audio, folks can join and leave as they will, and to have it recorded for replay by others. That's what I am shooting for (though as I mentioned, perhaps with TeamViewer). That will be a great learning resource.

Are you available tomorrow at 1pm to try this further, hopefully with a group of us? I hope so, as you have some experience here.

As for your comment earlier that I seem hard to get a hold of - that's news to me, FWIW. Every time someone calls me I pick up the phone, and when they email or PM, I do my best to get back ASAP, especially if the issue is time sensitive.

Call or write me any time! Have folks in your HSH Skype groups call or write any time (Dave does, from time to time).

Cheers,

Ted

Sounds good, i'm free tomorrow so i can test this out with you. I have a Skype account but only on my iPhone, i will install it on my computer tonight. I have TeamViewer already so i'm good to go.

Tuesday at 1 pm it is.

I workout each day, from 11:30 am , but will definetly finish by 1245, instead of 130, and will join in too.

Now for all the stuff you want to do , TeamViewer may be the way to go, as we have had minor issues in the HSH group, nothing serious, just slow posting updates of previous posts when you signed out, and sometimes with current posts being slow to also, but for the most part it works great.

As for having all of us talking at once, this I've only did thru GOTOMEETING.com.

Agreed , when I really need you , you have been there, just never mind, see ya 1pm EST, right?

patrick

Okay my 1st 3 picks are at PRX and in my selection's for a 20 race dec cycle.

This is because the postimes are before 1pm, if any one is iterested.

patrick

Folks,

Running just a little behind - setting up to record this experiment from a separate computer than the one running RDSS, so to get smoothest experience :confused:

Should be back up in 10 minutes (~1:15pm EST). Call my Skype ID: ted.craven and we'll gather up to 9 of us and see how this works for group activity.

(I suspect we'll have to establish some 'talking' rules if 9 separate people are in the 'room' at once :eek: )

Ted

OK, that was a short but sweet failure, using Skype. We had 5 people in a conference with audio and screen sharing. Connection cut out almost immediately and repeatedly. My early diagnosis = Skype is not best Live Conference facility for what we want to do.

Rescheduled this for tomorrow Wednesday December 19 at 1pm using TeamViewer (www.teamviewer.com) - free software. Download it, install it - I will publish a Meeting ID here tomorrow for folks to join. We can do audio via TeamViewer as well. I will put up a few screenshots here to help instruct new users how to do that.

Ted

I find that to be a little odd that it couldn't handle the conference call. Seeing that you can make video calls with Skype, i would think that would be a lot more bandwidth intense, especially with two video feeds at the same time. Maybe the time of day had something to do with it, who knows.

Hey Patrick, how does it work when you Skype with the HSH guys?

My understanding from reading Skype support groups is that video and screen sharing constitute the most bandwidth, then voice, then text chat/SMS as the least bandwidth.

We had 5 participants, no video, 5 screen sharing channels, 4 audio channels (I muted one of mine) - I think that's a lot of bandwidth for Skype.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought the HSH Skype group was a text chat only. I'm sure someone can clarify.

Ted

I was watching my network meter while we were talking and it was humming along pretty good, for the small amount of time we were on we used 20 MB. Even when Skype is idle, it's chewing up data.

In the past I have used it to make long distance calls with my cell phone, and to sum it up, it's awful! Flaky connections most of the time with dropped calls, i was never impressed with it.

TeamViewer
 

After we were done, Patrick and I connected using TeamViewer and worked a few races. It was a technically satisfying experience (for 2 people), including making a recording, and I would like to try that again tomorrow.

Here is a link to join a meeting scheduled for 1pm Eastern Time tomorrow Wednesday December 19:


http://go.teamviewer.com/v8/m73174874


This will prompt you to either Run, or Save then Run (depending on your browser) a small program - the TeamViewer Quick Join utility which will connect you to the meeting which begins at 1pm tomorrow.

We will share computer screens running RDSS (ADW screens, and whatever else) and use the built in VOIP (voice over internet) to talk to each other. This will be a test to help see how this tool works for random Live Play sessions which anyone can organize whenever they feel like it. I will record the proceedings and post later (if it is not too disjointed or raucous :eek:). This is also a test to help me understand the moving parts of what I have to do (i.e. what computers, recording issues, meeting moderation issues) to hold the live Online RDSS Clinics I had planned, and which I expect to begin again starting in January.

Thee is room for up to 25 participants. It might be a chaotic event, but let's see what happens - just click the above link to join. Voice will be enabled by default for everyone, so everyone can talk to everyone. For starters, let's try that rather than me control who can speak in the meeting (but which might be a good idea for later, and for the Online RDSS Clinics). If that's too chaotic, we'll work something out.

In a follow up post to this, I will post a few screen shots of the TeamViewer Control Panel widget you will see when you join, and how to enable voice over internet so you can hear what people are saying. Also so you can speak in the meeting if you want to. To speak, you'll either need a plug in microphone or the built-in microphone on your computer to be enabled.

You can also download and install for free the full TeamViewer software if you like, rather than simply use the above Quick Join utility: http://www.TeamViewer.com

Let's see what happens tomorrow!

Ted

BTW, Dick and Gil: Patrick says he cashed on that nice $15 mutuel in PRX Race 3, which came up on top in RDSS but which we were too confused by what we were trying to do to capitalize on!

Nice work Patrick! On a side note.... i was not aware that Patrick played right wing for the Chicago Black Hawks, i know i know, it's probably not the first time you have herd that.

See you gents tomorrow.

Yes Ted , HSH groups are Type Only,

Teamviewer may be what we need, great choice Ted, as always.

HSH , uses Goto Meeting, very similar to Teamviewer for multi gatherings of voice and screen sharings, both seem more capapble than Skype.

patrick

What Track , I think Tampa ???

TAM, GP, FG -whatever. All are good for me.

Ted

Instructions for using TeamViewer
 

For anyone interested in joining our test today at 1pm Eastern of Live Play using TeamViewer, here are some instructions:

Join the meeting by clicking on this link: http://go.teamviewer.com/v8/m73174874

Your browser will prompt you to either Run, or Save then Run (depending on your browser) the TeamViewer connection utility. If your Security software warns you about the file you are running or downloading, just accept it and let it run or download.

You will automatically be taken to the meeting room. If the meeting has not yet started, you will get a waiting page, otherwise you will simply join the meeting in progress.

A TeamViewer Control Panel will appear on the right side of your screen.

To hear the meeting audio, click the 'headphones' icon and the Voice over IP section in the Control Panel will expand.

Attachment 32898

If you want to speak in the meeting, click on the microphone icon in that section to un-mute it. You may need to check your audio settings to make sure you have the correct microphone and speakers identified for TeamViewer to use. Click the 'gear' icon at the right side of the Voice over IP section.

Attachment 32899

Attachment 32900

If you can't hear or can't speak (i.e. the group seems to not hear you), you can send a text chat message and I'll try to respond. To chat, click the 'chat icon' at the top, which opens the Chat section of the Control Panel, then type a message.

Attachment 32901

FWIW, I recommend folks do not enable video for this test session - it eats up a certain amount of bandwidth which I'd prefer we reserve for audio and screen sharing.

I will use my screen to display RDSS and whatever else we need, and perhaps hand the controls over to other presenters if they wish to make points from their own screens.

I'd like to participate for about an hour and see what happens.

Again, this is just a test session today and we may or may not get much useful handicapping or betting done. But it might be a useful dry run for folks to do Live Sessions like this whenever they want, and it will help me better understand how to set up online RDSS Learning sessions in the near future.

Good luck to us - see, and hear, you all this afternoon!

Ted

If anyone has any problems connecting, you can also post them here and someone will try to help you. After the meeting is done, any helpful suggestions to make it easier for people to connect in the future can also be posted here.

People may also want to consider downloading and installing the full version of TeamViewer for future meetings and for remote tech support for RDSS.

Ted

I can't find my headphones with microphone this morning and was hoping to check it out. Will I be able to type if I have anything to say or is it voice only?

Jim

PS...Never mind you answered my question already.

not exactly
 

Hi Ted

Not for nothing but is 1:00 Pm EST on a weekday
very good for the 9-5 working crowd ?

Just saying

Bill

Attachment 32902
This is all I'm getting. No controls on the side to adjust. I joined TV a couple of years ago and spent considerable time last night trying to sign in. It doesn't recognize my ID, even though I had them sent me a new one which I confirmed via an email they subsequently sent me. I don't know what will happen when the meeting starts. It does show that I have joined.

Bill,

It's a TEST. I need to find out how to manage a group meeting, how to explain to people how to get connected, how to do audio, how I record it, how to set up my own computers to make it work, etc. If handicapping gets done as well - that's a bonus.

You could start your own meeting later today or tonight if you like for further handicapping. Anybody can, then invite who they like, or publish an invitation here.

I am unavailable tonight, but we can certainly do evenings later.

Please join in if you can!

Ted

Mum,

The meeting hasn't started yet. When it does (1pm Eastern) you will be connected when you login and see the TeamViewer Control Panel as described above.

Ted

okay

Ted: Popped in for a few minutes to test. Audio was clear and strong. Video was clear. Chat box worked well. I guess the issue was your computer slowing down.

I think Dave S has used Go To Meeting for his public seminars and that doesn't seem to slow down. He probably has multiple computers, however.

The paid version of Team Viewer might be meant for these types of calls.

Thanks for hosting Ted. I enjoyed stopping by and seeing all that were there. Seems like a nice way for small groups to play the races together. Good teaching tool as well.

Jim

Lou, Nice to see you, if not hear you! When I stopped the video recording, everything went back to normal - nice and peppy. SO I learned that I should record off a different computer than the one hosting the meeting and running RDSS. I'm sure Dave S does something like that. Not sure if there are extra efficiencies from the paid version of TV, but if this seems like a way to go, I'll investigate.

I made one dutched exacta bet in a short odds field (TAM 4) and made 80% on my wager - not bad ... !

cheers,

Ted

Nice to talk to you too. It was a bit chaotic for starters, but once we got the mike's and chat thing worked out, it was smoother. 10 people seems doable, and this can accommodate 25, I think.

One option I"ll test another time, in preparation for future more formal teaching sessions for newcomers, is perhaps mute everyone for starters then if anyone wants to speak, they can ask and I'll open their mike. Keeps the background din and reverb down to the traffic outside my own window (or the moose ...)

Any other thoughts on organizational issues?

Ted

Folks, FWIW, the meeting is still going on so anyone can still join in. Looks like GP 5 is under review at the moment. I gave control of the meeting over to Patrick K, and 7 people are onboard at the moment. I'm working on other things now.

Mosey on over: http://go.teamviewer.com/v8/m73174874

Probably a good idea. I apologize if background noise was happening on my end. I would also like to get the proper headphones for next time. Guess I will add that to the Christmas list. Re: organizational issues, I'll think about that and send you an email or respond here later.

Jim

Talk
 

Ted

I think your presentation of the race was excellent aand good job winning
the exacta.

I found it very hard to follow along with the open mikes

I used the text box and you seemed to be able to answer me
and change the screen tabs all while keeping the flow of your
presentation , When too many people are talking and you can't see who is
speaking its very muddy, Maybe a text question or request is a better
option and opening only 1 mike at a time would be better

It was a good race discussion good work moving forward
Bill

Thanks Bill, and glad you joined us. That text thing seemed to work, you're right - the Organizer just has to keep an eye on it. It will be a different style of meeting if the Organizer controls who can speak and does most of the talking him/herself - but in the end it's perhaps more coherent.

Maybe if you run a meeting, you can try it that way. I will organize another one myself as soon as I consolidate all the feedback from this one, check the recording and finish the RDSS update. This weekend?

Amazing stuff to be able to exacta dutch bet the 3 favourites top and bottom (and add a 4th 20-1 horse on bottom) and make an 84% return.

Ted

AmWest Dutching Tool
 

For anyone who joined us in the Live meeting today and saw me or Patrick use the AmWest dutching tool (Win, DD, Exacta pools) and would like more info, first check out the geographical restrictions here: http://www.sartinmethodology.com/rebate_info then write or call me and I'll do a deeper demo.

If you are limited by the state you live in, still give me a call ...

Ted

Partsnut,

Good to talk to you finally today before the meeting started. It's a stressful time in your household right now, I know, and you have my - and all of our empathy and best wishes. I hope your wife gets all the best health care and support she deserves. I know it's the main thing you focus on right now, and I wish you all the love in the world.

And thanks for that analysis you did on Tampa Race 1!

yours,

Ted

FWIW, here are the individual wagers created by the Dutching tool, along with the Exacta grid from TAM Race 4 today. The exacta payout was the lowest one, but the $20 bet returned for 2 tickets at $18.40 apiece, betting 4 horses in total (3 on top, 4 underneath).

As I mentioned, I was playing toward the 20-1 #3 horse in the place position and would happily have accepted a partial loss for the opportunity to cash with that. As it was, the other 3 horses bet were the top 3 favourites. Not a bad way to capitalize on the amount of apparently chalky races we often see ...

Attachment 32921 Attachment 32922

Attachment 32923

That was really cool, i thoroughly enjoyed that.

I couldn't get my headphones to work for some strange reason, but the mic worked. I had to run the audio through my speakers so i couldn't use the mic, that would have caused feedback. I recommend anyone using TV to use headphones with a mic, or you will get feedback or a echo affect from your speakers.

All in all TeamViewer worked really well for meetings, we were on for 2 hours and 17 minutes and used 195 MB of data on my end. I imagine the host would end up using a lot more data than that.

It would be good next time to pick a track in advance, i can't handicap in between races, not enough time to thoroughly go through the races. I look forward to the next time, it was interesting hearing all the perspectives.

Gil,

On your TV Control Panel, the Voice over IP section, open the Config 'gear' icon at the right edge, the Audio settings - then check your speaker settings. It could be the mute box was checked, or the speaker hardware chosen in the dropdown list was a different speaker than what you were listening to. It turned out that was one of Mum's initial problems.

Looking forward to the next one!

Ted

No, i wen't through every setting, it was kind of strange, i could get the test sound to work through the headphones but i couldn't hear you speak. It worked fine on Skype yesterday, but not today. I have so many audio inputs going into my PC it gets a little complex on my end, i will play around with it and figure it out.