A question for Ted, or a moderator
 

My question is about "average pace" (AP). In "pace makes the race", Brohamer seemed to put a lot a weight on this rating. Is AP included in RDSS on a different name, or is it obsolete?

Fw
 

I am not a moderator here but from what I understand FW in RDSS would be similar to AP which Tom Brohamer speaks about in his book Modern Pace Handicapping.

The algorithm's may have been tweaked but I believe they represent the same thing.

To quote Dick Schmidt. Factor W

EP+SP=FW

EP is EARLY PACE, which is the average speed to the second call (routes or sprints) expressed in feet per second.

SP is SUSTAINED PACE, which is the third fraction in feet per second added to EP and divided by two.

I believe that Tom did call this Average Pace, but it is the same factor and works just the same. The two names were used interchangeably in the Sartin Methodology.

Tom also at times used Factor X, which is indeed the first and third fractions added together and divided by two and Turn Time, which is the second fraction alone. He always liked TT, as it had to be calculated and was not obvious in the PP's. Most people were too lazy to do it before computers made everything easy.

Dick

Hi polamb

There is nothing from Tom Brohamer about Average pace in Pace Makes The Race
at least not in the original version

Did you mean Toms own book Modern Pace Handicapping

In the original Pace Makes The Race only 3 readouts are applied
Early Pace, Final Fraction -3rd fraction and Total Pace which
is EP + FF = Total Pace
Later in the book they do get into turn time and the very basics of
deceleration

All readouts of Pace Makes The Race / Phase 1 are easy to apply in
RDSS2
The headings are different but its on the TPR/E-L Tab
Attachment 33471

Thanks Houndog for your answer. I knew the AP had to be somewhere in RDSS, because so much emphasiis was put on it.
Bill V, I would not have mentioned Brohamer's name in my question if I did not read the book myself. For your reference, it is the second edition of "Modern Pace Handicapping". On page 4, it says " Average Pace (AP) is the average of all three fractions in sprints, and the average of EP and SP in routes. By itself, Average Pace is the most consistent winner-producer of any rating in the array".

:cool: Bill, I just realized that I had mentioned "pace makes the race" in my initial post. My mistake. You were right. it is on "Modern Pace Handicapping". I own both books, which I had purchased at once. Some of the subjects are common to both books, which would explain my confusion.

Summary
 

Here are my added thoughts, FWIW, though Houndog and Bill V have covered it pretty much.

Per Brohamer (per the Sartin Methodology Phase III, circa early 1990's):

Average Pace in sprints = the average of all 3 fractions. Whether you average factors [(F1+F2+F3) / 3] or simply sum them [F1+F2+F3] - you get the same information when you rank them or measure gaps between them. Total Energy (in RDSS) = F1+F2+F3, thus AP in sprints = Total Energy.

Average Pace in routes = (EP + SP) / 2 or (1/2 EP + 1/2 SP)

Early Pace = EP = velocity to the 2nd Call. In RDSS, either 2nd call velocity (SC) or EPR = velocity to the 2nd Call.

Sustained Pace = SP = (EP+F3) / 2 or (1/2 EP plus 1/2 F3)

So restating Average Pace in routes: (1/2 EP) plus (1/2 EP plus 1/2 F3) or 1x EP plus 1/2 F3

In RDSS we have no factor which is 1 times Second call velocity (SC or EPR or EP) plus half of F3. Instead, we have 1x EPR plus 1x LPR (F3) = CPR (or TPR, if you prefer). Thus, CPR has more F3 in it than AP for routes (1x F3 versus 1/2 x F3)

Thus, in RDSS:

Total Energy = Average Pace in Sprints
CPR ~= Average Pace (AP) in routes (a bit more F3)

If AP = FW in Phase III (MPH), it became more nuanced later. In RDSS, FW in sprints = (2x EPR)+LPR. In routes, FW = EPR + (2x LPR).

The MPH FactorX (F1+F3) / 2 = RDSS FX = F1+F3 (same thing)
The MPH Turn Time (TT) = RDSS TT = F2 velocity
%Early EP/(EP+SP) evolved to %Median or (F1+F2) / (F1+F2+F3)

Hidden Energy is not given in MPH, but it is (roughly) F2+F3 = HID (in later Sartin DOS programs and in RDSS).

So that's the map between Modern Pace Handicapping (Sartin Phase III) factors and their equivalents in RDSS (and Speculator, Validator, Synthesis and other programs). RDSS factors other than these evolved since MPH times, covered in many Follow Ups (or by subsequent discussion here). MPH described factors are based on FPS velocity calculations, whereas in Pace makes the Race, EPR, LPR, TPR (or CPR) the calculations are based on a points based difference from a set of par times by distance - but they amount to fundamentally the same measurements.

Of course, in later software (and RDSS) all running times (and velocities and points-based factors) are adjusted by a Daily Track Variant, an Inter-Track variant (DTV and ITV supplied by TrackMaster), a distance equalization to today's distance and a surface equalization factor (calculated internally).

cheers,

Ted

No problem.I had a feeling thats what you meant
Good Skill and welcome to the Sartin Methodology

Bill

:)Ted, Thanks very much for your elaborate input. I am glad I asked that question, because, after reading about the AP, in "Pace makes the race", I was considering purchasing a separate software, just to calculate the AP for me, since I did not see it anywhere in RDSS. I will be paying more attention to "TE" and "CPR" from now on.
Thanks.

Modern Pace Handicapping !!!! not P.M.T.R.:rolleyes:

I have 2 members of Pace and Cap trying to help me downlod the program and after several hours of frustation, we still have not accomplished our goal. Will you please give me the phone number of someone who can help me and I will call them. My phone number is 501-525-3035.

Thanks,
Bob Fowler