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Old 09-13-2016, 07:41 PM   #71
atkinsrr
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also wager on one turn 8.0 dirt when I can get one turn mile pace lines
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Old 09-14-2016, 10:36 AM   #72
delayjf
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Here were the images I was attempting to post earlier. The first one was the old PIRCO Office location, specifically it was the office located in the elbow of the building.

The second picture is the restaurant were the seminars were conducted (I think) - can anyone confirm?
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Last edited by delayjf; 09-14-2016 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:35 PM   #73
cratman
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Restaurant

I never wen to a seminar there but I seem to recollect it was a short walk from the office and that Howard and I ate lunch there the one time I visited the office.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:43 PM   #74
mick
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Memories of Howard Sartin, PIRCO, Jim Bradshaw and others

I don't think it's my place to start a thread on this topic. After all, I'm late to the Sartin Methodology game. Still, I would love to hear from Sartin veterans about their memories of the Doc, Jim Bradshaw, and others in PIRCO, from when they were at the height of their powers and changing the world of handicapping, at least in this country.

I'll be at Saratoga in just over four weeks where I'll see Ted, Barb, Pook, and Gandalf again and meet Tim G (Lt1), Bill V, and others. I'm looking forward to all the stories. I know that Tim has been involved with the Sartin Methodology since 1990 and Bill V. since the mid-to-late 90's. They have had experiences that most of us will never have because the principals are gone.

It doesn't have to be all good either. We're human beings and that said, none of us are perfect. I think I'm a decent sort but I'm sure there are those who despise me (especially some who appeared before me in court and didn't get the ruling they wanted). Candidly, after watching Doc's last video, I thought he was a little testy. Dick Schmidt referred to him as "ornery." But I take that in context. When he made that video, others had been disparaging him personally and stealing his ideas. I'd be testy, too.

There is no wikipedia page on Howard Sartin and very little history about him or his revolutionary Methodology on the Internet, with the exception of Pace and Cap. That troubles me. (Most of what I know comes from Brohamer's book.) Does anyone else share my feelings? If so, perhaps we can create something of an historical record.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:46 PM   #75
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Also, I want to thank delayjf for posting the photos. Much appreciated.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:09 PM   #76
Mitch44
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I believe your correct Mick in that the "Doc" never received the credit due him from his field of endeavor. Nor the Hat. I suppose Brohammer did the most because of his book which Sartin sanctioned.

Sometimes it takes time and perhaps one day he may. Many famous people fall into that situation, therefore I don't think its uncommon. Pace is highly recognized now however Doc's advancement into its more refined things such as chaos math with V/DC and other things will arrive with time when more understood and advanced perhaps by another great mind.
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Old 07-17-2017, 12:31 AM   #77
Bill V.
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Howard

Hi Mick

It's funny you mention the video, When I first read your post I started to
think about how to describe Howard.

I never went to a seminar. By the time I got into the methodology that practice
had ended

As for as a being Howard Sartin teacher, and guru of Pace handicapping That video and the tapes and videos in the library
are only part of what I have to go by

When I first got the 3 tape Doc video set I used to watch it at my father's house. Dad did not know who Doc' was
I remember dad walking past the TV and says who is that, What a nice man.
He seems like a nice guy, Dad was busy, but he asked if he could watch the tapes later, He did, and he likes Howard very much from those tapes.

On a personal level, I am the wrong guy to ask. I can think of a few people I have angered to the point they no longer post here, simply because I refuse to speak or listen to negativity about my friend Howard.

Howard has a dear friend of mine. he came into my life from my prayers
while I was in a deep depression.

He listened to me and I listened to his problems.

We worked many races together. After awhile it was not a teacher to the student experience, It became a partnership. My success was his success

When I went to visit Doc and later Jim Bradshaw I saw something that is hard to explain, but they both had a tremendous influence in my personal
recovery to become the guy I am today.

They both lived normal lives, They did not live and die with the results of races, They had a quiet confidence that they would win and when they lost they knew why and accepted it and moved on.

Doc was a very good friend first and foremost


Bill
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:37 AM   #78
mick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill V. View Post
Hi Mick

It's funny you mention the video, When I first read your post I started to
think about how to describe Howard.

I never went to a seminar. By the time I got into the methodology that practice
had ended

As for as a being Howard Sartin teacher, and guru of Pace handicapping That video and the tapes and videos in the library
are only part of what I have to go by

When I first got the 3 tape Doc video set I used to watch it at my father's house. Dad did not know who Doc' was
I remember dad walking past the TV and says who is that, What a nice man.
He seems like a nice guy, Dad was busy, but he asked if he could watch the tapes later, He did, and he likes Howard very much from those tapes.

On a personal level, I am the wrong guy to ask. I can think of a few people I have angered to the point they no longer post here, simply because I refuse to speak or listen to negativity about my friend Howard.

Howard has a dear friend of mine. he came into my life from my prayers
while I was in a deep depression.

He listened to me and I listened to his problems.

We worked many races together. After awhile it was not a teacher to the student experience, It became a partnership. My success was his success

When I went to visit Doc and later Jim Bradshaw I saw something that is hard to explain, but they both had a tremendous influence in my personal
recovery to become the guy I am today.

They both lived normal lives, They did not live and die with the results of races, They had a quiet confidence that they would win and when they lost they knew why and accepted it and moved on.

Doc was a very good friend first and foremost

Bill
Hi, Bill. I've heard others say much the same thing about Doc Sartin, Ted included, that he truly cared about people and that he wanted to help others succeed. There was Howard Sartin the salesman and promoter and Dr. Sartin, the caring psychologist and counselor. While those in the fold experienced the latter and cherished the experience (like you), those outside probably saw only the former and the cynics among them denigrated him. (How very "common" of them.) I think you were fortunate to have had his friendship (and he yours).

From my own limited experience with the Sartin Methodology and RDSS, I can understand why his sales pitch seemed rather forceful at times. It's because he knew it worked and he was speaking from confidence. When I'm disciplined and follow the Methodology, I make money, cycle after cycle. To heck with the detractors, I know it works. Perhaps it's not as lucrative as it once was, win betting just isn't, but it's still profitable. He broke the code, so to speak, and the many concepts of the Methodology are still affecting handicapping today, whether others want to give him credit or not.

Well, enough from me. I didn't know him. Thanks, Bill. See you in a few weeks.
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Old 06-05-2018, 08:09 PM   #79
Lefty
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Doc

The Doc and I started on the wrong foot but then we became good friends and he invited me to three of his Vegas seminars for free. Great experiences.
Anyway, Doc sent me a cease and desist letter accusing me of pirating and sell the Energy prgm. What happed was I had a trade and swap newsletter back then where subscribers could trade and swap systems and software as long as they were originals. One sent me his orig copy of Energy wanting me to sell it for him. I did. Then I heard from the Doc. I explained I sold an original copy of Energy and thought it was my right to do so, just like I could sell a used book. I assured him I was in no way selling copies of Energy.
He agreed with me and we became friends. I was responsible for many of my friends buying his software. I really miss Doc and his genius.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:54 AM   #80
Bob Cochran
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Smile Remembering "The Doc"

I became interested in the Sartin Methodology in 1986. I had attempted
to "play" the horses from 1962 up to the 1980's. Sometime I won, but not more than I lost. I thought it was a matter of being lucky, or not so lucky.

Thanks to Doc and the methodology , I now know it takes the combination
of physical, mental, and spiritual energy to become a winner.
I will always be grateful for my experiences with Doc, Jimmy the Hat, Bob Purdy, Michael Pizzola, and one of my best friends Marion Jones. Ted Craven
has done a wonderful job of keeping the dream alive.
continued success,
Bob Cochran
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