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Old 06-05-2007, 01:11 PM   #1
Ted Craven
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Thoughts on Public vs Private Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by mufasa View Post
Socantra:

I was never interested in the formulas that help me get to lets say EPR or LPR or any other set of factors. As a newbie to this methodology I am most interested in the definitions. What are the given factors computing and then it is up to me to use it most effectively, if I could find the way. I too agree that we need to be careful about giving away too much information since besides the software pirates this is a pari-mutuel game and we should be sharing these handicapping tool concepts amongst ourselves where possible. Perhaps because I am a newbie going over the user concepts of some of the program outputs is important. You see I am not necessarily interested in how a person particularly uses their program outputs to get to their particular level of success but it is most interesting to hear different member ideas on how these concepts/outputs could generally be used most effectively. Ted’s example with the inner track at Aqueduct is a perfect example of sharing useful user ideas that are general in nature. I do not know if this proposal has been put forth before or even if anyone else (other then a newbie) would be interested but why not start a site area with password access only where ideas could be exchanged. Set up a private place where users/owners of the software can go to think out loud. This should be the case for review of the RDSS program so as to protect the information therein.

Thanks,

Robert
This topic continues Robert's (mufasa's) thoughts on keeping info about Spec (or RDSS, or whatever) private, versus public discussions.

From my own point of view, I have a personal interest in encouraging discussion about how Spec and RDSS tick and how people use them: the more folks can make these things work for profit and for enjoyment, the more they are likely to use the software and stimulate other people's interest. And no secret or shame that I benefit from that. Just being candid about my biases!

EPR, LPR and CPR as used in Spec, Val and RDSS are the subject of the book Pace Makes the Race. Velocity calculation, Total Energy, certain basic factors have been well documented by Tom Brohamer and by many others. That info is in the public domain for anyone who wishes to understand the derivation of the ratings, and it's why those numbers are broken out in the RDSS TPR screen and the RDSS, Val and Spec Velocity and other screens. The explanation of the derivation of the BLBL point scheme is there for all to see and tinker with since the days of Val2 and has been previously discussed (somewhere) on this site. And as Dick has pointed out, a lot can be gleaned by just plain sitting around tinkering with things on a calculator.

I'm happy to clarify my understanding of how some Sartin concepts are portrayed in the later software - for the purpose of encouraging more thinking and understanding about the analysis then wager creation process - not for the purpose of short-circuiting that task. I suspect that most of what can be stolen from Sartin has already been stolen long ago and some of the rest can be appropriated by just using the software.

It would just be plain disrespectful to Doc Sartin to elaborate on some key formulae, so no worries that that will happen (from me).

I prefer the discussions to be public because it grows the pie. There is an awful lot of computation which goes into some of these factors (V/DC makes my head hurt). The synthesis of all of them plus what's coming if I can get even a part of my goals accomplished, means (to me) that even if someone can make their own TPR numbers, or E/L, or duplicate the BLBL scores from Primary Line Scores - the whole, the gestalt, will always be greater than the sum of the parts. I don't want to know the gory details about how my TV or telphone works -I want to use them! And the contest results here are excellent proof that good handicappers can even use the same tools and make different selections, so if there ends up being 2 or 3 times the users of the current software, I actually doubt the mutuels will go down too much just because of that.

My vote is in favour of open discussion. Robert (mufasa), you're doing as great job of stimulating that, for sure!

Just my .02 cents

Ted
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Last edited by Ted Craven; 06-05-2007 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 06-05-2007, 01:23 PM   #2
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Ah so.

The inner sanctum is revealed.

Most of us paid good money early on in the methodology for a program or two and for the now cherished Follow Up.
What Bill has done here with the help and urging of a few others is beyond what anybody could have imagined.
After the last few years of being out there alone and with no support or lifeline this site is a godsend.

To Bill, Ted and Richie and others that have helped me I say THANKS from the bottom of my heart.

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Old 06-05-2007, 01:48 PM   #3
socantra
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Sorry about stomping on the thread.. I came in thru the "New Posts" button and didn't really notice where I was.

I'm all for as open a discussion as possible. I've learned a lot here by following threads that I never would have thought to ask about. Collateral learning can be a wonderful thing.

Dick
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Old 06-05-2007, 05:28 PM   #4
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Private

Hello
I agree I think things are working here
I am just trying to copy what Doc was doing in the follow up
I think we are that small group of dedicated users
that you want to see. From talking to mainstream handicappers
I feel whatever is discused here is fairly ignored by them
'Oh yeah I read stuff on your site . Its all sartin stuff so
I am lost' . I feel that we are so hard core in our goal to win
and help out other people who want to win, That we should keep
all post open It really is just about us on this site

GS
Bill
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