Dynamics Pacelines

[Bill V.]

I put this down here, But I think its for everyone
Celebrating Doc birthday I went back and read The Dynamics of Incremental
Velocity in the Sartin library

This is a manual that was included in my welcome packet
when I became a client in 1997.

Its also a manual Doc asked me to post on pace and cap
and recommended to us all to read

Been getting some wonderful help with my pace line work
I wanted to share this with the group It might not be for everyone
but it may be a help if your not doing as well as you think you should
My friend hammers that to me
do what you do best ..




From The Howard Sartin manual The Dynamics
of Incremental Velocity Page 16-17

Pacelines

"Appropriate Pace Line selection is essential to success in utilizing the Dynamics
of Incremental Velocity. I say appropriate rather than right or wrong because they
are morality terms.
Appropriate means a line that represents a contender's true ability and running
style when IN FORM. It should be a line where it ran competitively against the kind
of horses it will face today.
Since this work is an overview of the subject at hand, we will not go into detail
in the manner ofpaceline selection. I will, however,offer some guide lines

1. Avoid using a horse's BEST line unless it was RECENT ( within 40 days)
2. Avoid using lines from Maiden Wins unless todays race is carded for
Non-Winners of one except maiden or claiming
3. Never use a truly BAD paceline.You're totally defeating the purpose of
handicapping which is to select winners
4. DO NOT USE TROUBLE LINES
5. Let a horses AVERAGE PURSE VALUE and or Class Factor determine how far back
you go for a line.
6. The concept of last race recency of a line is exaggerated

Looking at a sequence of 1000 races that we actually won, our average pace line used
was 2.35 This simply means the average was closest to the 2nd race back, but often
it was the 3rd race back. The last race was used 42% of the time. Learning to select
the proper paceline is an art that comes only with practice. Doing it over and over
is by far the best means of mastering the procedure"

[Bill V.]

After reading the manual I saw it was late but I was charged up
I bet the late double at Mountaineer Race 8 and 9

here are my lines and my bet
I used off lines track was muddy

3 x 3 = $18

Double 8/3 pays $85.00

Happy birthday Doc

Bill

[mikesal57]

Nice going Bill....

and right in that manual.....CLASS!!!
it should never be ignored

[mikesal57]

Look at APV...

Who could you have eliminated ?

[SilentRun]

Bill,

Nice play on the double.

Thanks for posting Doc's paceline guidelines. The item regarding, "Avoid Using lines from Maiden Lines unless todays race is carded for NW1 xcpt Mdn or Cl" is
a wake up call for me. I have been using a Mdn win line (last only) and only if the horse won by 3 lenghts or more. Now this has prompted me to go through my records and determine whether the value of doing this.

As for the 8th race. ...I cashed on #8 based on the horses last line (below). Look at the 10th line where the horse won in the mud.
This horse obviously performs well in the mud. In the last race he kept the winner honest all the way to the wire and last nite was his turn.
Why the public ignored that line and let the horse go to post at 7/1 is a mystery to me. I think the trainer brought him back after only 10 days only because of the mud. Actually none of the APV/CR
horses ran ITM.

Ernie

[For The Lead]

Originally Posted by SilentRun

Bill,

Nice play on the double.

Thanks for posting Doc's paceline guidelines. The item regarding, "Avoid Using lines from Maiden Lines unless todays race is carded for NW1 xcpt Mdn or Cl" is
a wake up call for me. I have been using a Mdn win line (last only) and only if the horse won by 3 lenghts or more. Now this has prompted me to go through my records and determine whether the value of doing this.

As for the 8th race. ...I cashed on #8 based on the horses last line (below). Look at the 10th line where the horse won in the mud.
This horse obviously performs well in the mud. In the last race he kept the winner honest all the way to the wire and last nite was his turn.
Why the public ignored that line and let the horse go to post at 7/1 is a mystery to me. I think the trainer brought him back after only 10 days only because of the mud. Actually none of the APV/CR
horses ran ITM.
Ernie

APV is based on how it is calculated.

I have been using APV since the 1960's when I first purchased the "Kelco Calculator". These were the people that developed the procedure, as far as I know. Since then, it seems anyone that uses APV is simply duplicating or re-making that tool.

When I first started downloading from Trackmaster about 15 years ago, APV was one of the first things I checked. I found that the difference between their APV number and that calculated by the Kelco Calculator was too insignificant for me to bother with, so I used Trackmaster's number. I am very comfortable with their number and feel it is accurate as the original developer intended it to be.

Below is a snapshot of APV directly from Trackmaster for the 8th race at MNR on 10.03.11. Keep in mind that the #6 horse was scratched, which leaves the #8 as the TOP APV horse in the race.

[For The Lead]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

I put this down here, But I think its for everyone
Celebrating Doc birthday I went back and read The Dynamics of Incremental
Velocity in the Sartin library

This is a manual that was included in my welcome packet
when I became a client in 1997.

Its also a manual Doc asked me to post on pace and cap
and recommended to us all to read

Been getting some wonderful help with my pace line work
I wanted to share this with the group It might not be for everyone
but it may be a help if your not doing as well as you think you should
My friend hammers that to me
do what you do best ..




From The Howard Sartin manual The Dynamics
of Incremental Velocity Page 16-17

Pacelines

"Appropriate Pace Line selection is essential to success in utilizing the Dynamics
of Incremental Velocity. I say appropriate rather than right or wrong because they
are morality terms.
Appropriate means a line that represents a contender's true ability and running
style when IN FORM. It should be a line where it ran competitively against the kind
of horses it will face today.
Since this work is an overview of the subject at hand, we will not go into detail
in the manner ofpaceline selection. I will, however,offer some guide lines

1. Avoid using a horse's BEST line unless it was RECENT ( within 40 days)
2. Avoid using lines from Maiden Wins unless todays race is carded for
Non-Winners of one except maiden or claiming
3. Never use a truly BAD paceline.You're totally defeating the purpose of
handicapping which is to select winners
4. DO NOT USE TROUBLE LINES
5. Let a horses AVERAGE PURSE VALUE and or Class Factor determine how far back
you go for a line.
6. The concept of last race recency of a line is exaggerated

Looking at a sequence of 1000 races that we actually won, our average pace line used
was 2.35 This simply means the average was closest to the 2nd race back, but often
it was the 3rd race back. The last race was used 42% of the time. Learning to select
the proper paceline is an art that comes only with practice. Doing it over and over
is by far the best means of mastering the procedure"

Nice post Bill.

It never hurts to re-visit pace line discussions. It is the heart of not just the Sartin Methodology, but any program that relies on a single line.

There should be more discussions on this topic on an ongoing basis.

Naturally everyone is entitled to choose lines as they see them, but as Ted has said several times, consistency is the key. A hap hazard means of picking pace lines can only be detrimental to ones bankroll in the long run.

Thanks again for the post.

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by For The Lead

APV is based on how it is calculated.

I have been using APV since the 1960's when I first purchased the "Kelco Calculator". These were the people that developed the procedure, as far as I know. Since then, it seems anyone that uses APV is simply duplicating or re-making that tool.

When I first started downloading from Trackmaster about 15 years ago, APV was one of the first things I checked. I found that the difference between their APV number and that calculated by the Kelco Calculator was too insignificant for me to bother with, so I used Trackmaster's number. I am very comfortable with their number and feel it is accurate as the original developer intended it to be.

Below is a snapshot of APV directly from Trackmaster for the 8th race at MNR on 10.03.11. Keep in mind that the #6 horse was scratched, which leaves the #8 as the TOP APV horse in the race.

OK...I now have a problem with this!!!

FTL...Your APV from Trackmaster had the 8 as TOP

RDSS shows the 8 as 6th choice...

This is a major issue for "class" players...

So ?????? RDSS
This should not be a tweaked figure..it should be a straight forward calculation

mike

[SilentRun]

Originally Posted by For The Lead

Below is a snapshot of APV directly from Trackmaster for the 8th race at MNR on 10.03.11. Keep in mind that the #6 horse was scratched, which leaves the #8 as the TOP APV horse in the race.

Thanks for pointing that out...I didn't know that...I was referring to the top 3 ADV% as shown on the RDSS contender screen. 3 (98%), 1 (97%) and 2 (96%). This means Trackmaster and RDSS are inconsistent...Now how do I know which is correct ?

Ernie

[Bill V.]

Thanks Everyone for the positive feed back on my double

To FTL man what can I say ? do you want a cut in a check or cash

Hey guys as for as the APV/CR

what Ted is showing is exactly what the old Sartin programs
produce. So you know I am going to go with them
Ted has it down cold in my eyes

Ted's readouts are how Doc calculated APV and Class

GS
Bill