Unacceptable Behaviour - links to pirated older software

[Tim Y]

found an old on-line copy of energy right here.

[web link removed]

these were added by members over the years and I cannot guarantee their content but I uploaded some a long time back and they worked.

All the iterations of Speculator are here as well.

[Bill V.]

Ted and I do not support giving away programs
Many people paid hundreds of dollars for these programs
Its not fair to them that they are being given away free
Ted offers Speculator and Val 4 for $100 and all that money goes to the Sartin Family

The above link to a private Yahoo group is not the policy of Pace and Cap

[Thoroughvest]

I thank everybody for their input and suggestions.. It is gratefully appreciated.

Roger,

[Ted Craven]

Folks - these posts were moved from a thread on 'Using Energy'. Member Thoroughvest respectfully (and possibly ironically?) mused he wished he could somehow get the old Energy program illustrated in that other thread. There is NOTHING to criticize in anything he posted (and I am in awe of his skills in getting the winner mostly in his Top 3 horses using his tools mentioned plus 40 years of handicapping experience!)

Instead - so as to not hijack yet another thread, I am moving the above posts here to their own thread to accommodate the discussion about PaceandCap's policy on sharing (or 'pirating') older Sartin software.

It was inappropriate of Tim Y (cheeky, I would say) to post a link to his own website (or where he is a long time co-moderator) offering that people can download free copies of older Sartin software. There is NO WAY Tim Y can have been around P&C for so many years and NOT KNOW our policy on doing that. People here have bought and sold original disks to older programs they have purchased from Doc Sartin, and these transactions I have always encouraged to be conducted by Private Message.

However, overtly encouraging people to 'come on over' and get all those copyrighted programs, including Speculator 160 and presumably Val4 which I assert a propriety interest in, having reprogrammed and resurrected them from the dead, and all the other programs which are presumed no longer copyright by Sartin or the Sartin Family -- that cheeky presumption is not simply misplaced or ignorant 'wanting to help out' - it is willful disrespect to me, to PaceandCap policies and to his (recently reinstated) membership privileges, and IMO, to Doc Sartin and his Family.

I have told Tim my thoughts about that, which are more or less paraphrased above, and told him he is currently not welcomed to post at PaceandCap.

I understand that older Sartin software is out there and some people do not respect copyright and may pass on to friends copies of software they have. I can and choose to do nothing about: life is too short to get exercised over that. I also know it happens here at P&C, though most people have the courtesy to do it behind my back (i.e. by Private Message).

There are pages in the Older Sartin Software Forum here about Val4 and Spec160 and some people who for whatever reason do not want to subscribe to RDSS pay me for Val4 which I send directly to the Sartin Family. Others insist on purchasing Spec160 - and I simply give them Spec160 plus a year subscription to RDSS. Over the years since Doc passed away, I have given thousands of dollars to the Sartin Family from the proceeds of RDSS and of Val4 purchases. Some people have asked me for older software like Energy, Thoroughmation, KGEN etc and if I can't convince them that it's all in RDSS (per Docs assertion) - then I sometimes give them that software they seek either in return for a 1 year RDSS subscription (which sometimes they never use) OR a contribution to the Sartin Family which I forward to Doc's daughter Mary. She uses all these monies mostly to help care for her aging mother Mary, Docs widow, now fairly frail in her early 90's. If I make this older software available, it is private, casual and always respecting who owns it - the Sartin Family. And not a free-for-all dump of some older software no longer owned or cared for by anybody - 'just go help yourself'.

I guess I feel this way because the whole of what I have been doing here the past 11+ years is (with many others help) to carry forward the legacy of Doc Sartin. Not disrespect it. That's why I feel angry when I see what I interpret as disrespectful behaviour expressed towards Docs legacy - and towards P&C, for that matter.

I appreciate that some may disagree with me. That's their privilege! I told Tim Y that I would post in this thread an email reply to me if he wishes to make a response.


Bottom Line: no problem ASKING or musing that it would be nice to have those old programs - no problem at all. (And now people know where to pirate it - read between the lines). If you OWN original disks to older Sartin software, you can sell or buy it here - please just use Private Message. You cannot offer to share copies - PERIOD. (No worries if you just didn't know - no one will crucify you). If you want to somehow get older programs, contact me with your contribution proposal to the Sartin Family and I'll see if I can help you.

However, FWIW, not only in my opinion, but in Doc Sartin's view - RDSS includes all the phases of the Sartin Methodology, not the least because it is Validator (and Speculator) which Doc evolved from his earlier work, intending it to be the epitome of his life's work, leaving nothing out which was truly valuable. And 11+ years on, RDSS is even more than that (IMO). But this is not intended to be a commercial for RDSS.

The above is an explanation of this incident, and a clarification of our policies.

With respect,

Ted

[Thoroughvest]

I am very sorry my post causes such a problem. But for clarification, I did not muse, ask or insinuate that I was asking for a free program. I simply made the statement that it would make life easier if I had the program he used to make the calculations.
I would not ask or expect anyone to give me free any copyrighted program which he paid money for. I could write and probably will write a utility to calculate energy as I presently do it manually.

As a developer myself, albeit in another field I would also find it unacceptable if someone was giving away my software. Again. I apologize for causing such a stir. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words or a wrong interpretation but I was in no way soliciting for free software. I hope I have made myself clear.

Respectfully,

Roger

[Ted Craven]

Roger, thank for the clarifying reply. I felt very clear that you were in no way asking for free software - just as you said: having such software would make life easier. And even if you were innocently asking for leads on older software - it's no crime, as I stated above.

RDSS does those velocities and conversion to Energy percentages, but so does Brohamer's book Modern Pace Handicapping and many other sources. Once you have Total Energy, % energy in each fraction is a % ratio of velocity in one fraction to the whole - a simple calculation. If you read among the recent posts, or just ask in the relevant Forum, folks can help you understand the ranges of %median energy (one of the ratios) which correspond to the energetic ESP markers we use (E EP SP P S Late). Continue this in another thread, if interested.

Your reply in that other thread simply provided the 'tipping point' - you were innocent.

Take care,

Ted