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Sartin Methodology Handicapping 101 (102 ...) Interactive Teaching & Learning - Race Conditions, Contenders, Pacelines, Advanced Concepts, Betting ...

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Old 09-23-2018, 07:52 PM   #1
CheckMark
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Trying something new

I know this doesn’t have to do with Sartin, but I was trying to get the “Jim Bradshaw 5 Step approach” to work but I can’t seem to work out the method. Can someone help me and tell me how to do this so a 16 year old can understand. Thanks everyone.
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:48 AM   #2
Bill V.
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Many have tried

Hello Checkmark

I am not a matcher, There are a few out there but I have not heard from them lately.

For me, to help you I need to know what you know

The best thing to do is, You pick a race and show
what you can do using the 5 step Bradshaw method

1. Mark the Match Up Tandems.
2. Select the running style of all horses in the race.
3. Project today's pace.
4. Match running lines based on projected pace.
5. Match each horse against each other.

This is post is must read
http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5715

Question, Do you use RDSS ?

RDSS has many tools to help you with the Match Up
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Old 09-24-2018, 07:15 AM   #3
CheckMark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill V. View Post
Hello Checkmark

I am not a matcher, There are a few out there but I have not heard from them lately.

For me, to help you I need to know what you know

The best thing to do is, You pick a race and show
what you can do using the 5 step Bradshaw method

1. Mark the Match Up Tandems.
2. Select the running style of all horses in the race.
3. Project today's pace.
4. Match running lines based on projected pace.
5. Match each horse against each other.

This is post is must read
http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5715

Question, Do you use RDSS ?

RDSS has many tools to help you with the Match Up
I’m lost on the first step with the tandems, it says if Look at the Tandem horse's, if the winner's time for the Tandem was five fifths (1 full second) slower than today's pace at both the second call and finish then eliminate all of the horses in that Tandem. But how do you know today’s pace if this is the first step?. Everything else seems to make sense.
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:06 AM   #4
raceman5
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Match Up

Learning the Match Up is not an easy process. Took me a good 6 mths to learn it and I still go back every 90 days and review it, because we all get stale. There are plenty of free races to practice on at Whobet. My advice to you would read the Match-Up Forum Compilation Document that Ted has provided us with and don't try to digest it in one sitting.

Bob
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:06 AM   #5
Jeebs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckMark View Post
I’m lost on the first step with the tandems, it says if Look at the Tandem horse's, if the winner's time for the Tandem was five fifths (1 full second) slower than today's pace at both the second call and finish then eliminate all of the horses in that Tandem. But how do you know today’s pace if this is the first step?. Everything else seems to make sense.
Marking the tandems is simply the first step. You want to find the races where the horses ran against one another. You are NOT projecting pace at this point. As Bill V. points out, RDSS is a great tool for finding tandem races in a flash, as it does the work for you. Then, you mark each runner’s (in today’s race) visual running style. This should be a quick process. Only then, do you project a pace of race based on Hat’s guidelines. Once a pace has been established, then you look at the tandems to decide whether or not they meet the pace demands of today’s race. The whole point of the Matchup is to identify fast horses while eliminating slow horses. However, it is not an easy process. RichieP has a lot of material that I encourage you to read. However, to do it right, you need to stick with the basics, i.e. 5-step process - practice, take notes, and once you get a good feel (it should take a few months), move onto the “Mind’s Eye” series - practice each step one step at a time and take notes until you are proficient on the step and move onto the next step. Good luck!
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Old 09-24-2018, 09:19 AM   #6
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Checkmark,

Matching is not something one learns over night. It takes tens of thousands of handicapped races to get a feel for it. Start with the 5 steps as shown in the link by Bill above and progress from there as directed in The Hatcheck area. Slowly you will develop your own interpretation of it.

From my experience you need tons of patience, tons of persistence, and tons of time. I’m talking 5 days a week for years to sort out how it works for you. It is a lot of work. But the direction all comes from the Hatcheck.

Two of the best tidbits of advice that Jim gives IMO are:
1. Forget about everything else. Concern yourself only with the Matchup. No trainers, jockeys, corollaries, speed ratings, class ratings etc...Just match em.
2. If you are looking to make money bet only those that in your opinion look like sure bets. Even with that you will lose most of the time betting singles but if you get the hang of it, it will be profitable.

So if you can push through the frustration and put in the ten thousand hours, matching can work. Not many do it. This is what leads to the occasional big prices that give you the ROI.

Pook
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Old 09-24-2018, 01:57 PM   #7
raceman5
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Tandem

Checkmark if you want to see a nice Tandem Race in action, check out the first race at Thistledowns today. EASYYYYYYYYY Moneyyyyyyy. these are the types of races where you take the elastic band off the bankroll.


Bob
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Old 09-24-2018, 05:20 PM   #8
Mark
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Match Up

I'm in my 6th year of Matching horses. I still only bet horses over 6/1 because it is a continual process of learning. Unless you are 100% committed to this work, don't start.
Read the Hat Check blog, 100 times and also go to the library on site and pull up the Red Match Up manual and read it as well numerous times. The red Manual was written many years before the Hat Check blog and it uses a different method. It is much more involved with beaten lengths. But as time marched on Jim found he could simplify things by focusing on Positions.
1. Projecting early pace is the key to the Match Up. I have come to believe that the race will be decided in the first quarter mile of most races. Without a need to lead Early horse where you have a known leader and fraction at the 1st call, it becomes difficult. So i would suggest you only bet races where you have this type of leader. Now you have a time that you can use to qualify all the other runners against. If a runner doesn't show a race where he competed successfully against this time, he is not a win contender.
2. Assign Running Styles: The program does its best to do this for you but its Running styles are more based on Energy than the visual position in the race where a horse runs well. If a horse cannot obtain his comfortable Running style in a race, he is not a win contender.
3. Understand right now that you cannot rely on the programs use of adjustments. They apply final time variant to the fractional times which was the method used 30 or 40 years ago. The Match Up was created by using the Racing Form only, it predates the use of personal computers. Jim Bradshaw was a genius in my opinion and would use selective adjustments to 1st calls based on his knowledge of track speed from one track to another. If you alter the 1st call of a race it has implications for 2nd Call and Final Time. He also knew Final Time adjustments by track, distance and surface.
4. implementing the Match Up on RDSS: It took me several years to figure out what not to use when matching with RDSS. I handicap RAW just as I would if I had a racing form in front of me. I don't want any alteration to the raw fractions, particularly the 1st and 2nd fraction. The 1st fraction is least effected by surface speed and most reliant on the actual speed of the horses. Final time is totally depended on the early pace and the early contention among the Early horses. Fast Early horse that can get the lead and maintain it without challenge will win alot of races. But most often they will have to fight to get the lead and again to maintain it and it will tell in the stretch.
5. Don't ignore the Trackmaster DTV. High negative variant races should be viewed very skeptically. High positive variants as well. Different types of horses will be advantaged in either case. I always try to find lines that make the horses competitive but have a DTV as close to 0 as possible.

Richie P is sometimes available on the site to comment. Most of the Hat Check blog is written by him. However, he has a full and happy life and limited time. He was the last person that Jim Bradshaw personally taught his method.

Good Luck!
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Old 09-24-2018, 10:36 PM   #9
oswaldrha
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While we're on the subject...

Have any of the dedicated Matchers here on the form found any value in Gary Owens' Matchup Presentation/Procedure on the Las Vegas 1991 Seminar Tapes?
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Old 09-25-2018, 02:54 AM   #10
Bill V.
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Thanks

Hello Friends

Thanks to all the matchers who posted to help out Checkmark
Although a 16-year-old he may be too young to bet. I like how he wants to learn.

Good luck/skill CM,
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