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Old 08-01-2018, 08:32 PM   #1
For The Lead
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Posting Selections

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmath View Post
Saratoga race 10
This is a 6f race with 10 entries after scratches.
The 7 Smash Williams 7/2 ML and the 11 Discreet Mission 9/2 are my two main win horses.
My win bets will be on both horses if they are both above 5/2, if either or both are below 5/2 I will pass the race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmath View Post
Thanks for your breakdown Bill
I always like to see how others break down a race.
Rmath
I originally was going to post this in the "Races of Interest" forum where a race was posted as can be seen above. I changed my mind and posted it here.

First, congratulations on a winning selection.
Second, this post is not directly to you specifically. I have had something on my mind for quite a while and your post, today, just afforded me the opportunity to finally say what has been on my mind. Please, do not take my comments personally, they are not intended in that way.
Third, I appreciate your compliment to Bill V. for his breakdown of the horses in the race you chose and the fact that you enjoy reading how others break down a race. I wholeheartedly agree, which brings me to the point of my post.

Posters that put up selections that read “track, race, horse number” certainly aren’t offering that same enjoyment to those reading their post. If it were my decision to make, people who make those kinds of posts would have their post taken down, since they offer nothing of educational value.

If it were my decision to make, anyone wishing to post a race would be required to;
1 - post the PP’s for the horses in the race
2 – offer their break down of each horse in the race, to include the line selection and their thoughts/comments on each horse
3 – show supporting screens, as are available in RDSS, such as “Original, BL/BL, TPR, Rx”, etc.

Posting in this way allows everyone reading the post to truly follow along in an effort to learn something from the post.
Posting in this way will give the poster greater satisfaction when their selection wins than a simple follow up post saying “nice hit’.
Posting in this way will generate more conversation, thus more learning.

I’m sure there are those reading this that are saying they’re glad it is not my decision to make, but to those people I say, when Bill V started this site this is the approach he envisioned. Bill started this site with the idea of teaching. Bill was and continues to be very grateful to Howard Sartin for teaching him how to win and he has dedicated himself to carrying that forward. This is the reason so many people thoroughly enjoy the postings by Bill. Bill posts with the idea of teaching. He wants people to be able to learn from him and I dare say there are many who have, but only as a result of the thoroughness of his posts.
In the future, I can only hope that others at this site will follow Bill V’s lead. In doing so, it will only enhance the value of being a member of Pace & Cap as well as allow Bill to see his dream come true.

Thank you for your attention and consideration.
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:15 PM   #2
Ted Craven
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I agree with For The Lead and with his explanation. We have TWO separate Forums on purpose for race predictions: Selections and Races of Interest.

The Races of Interest Forum sub-header reads: '*Detailed* Discussion of Races – Screen shots, decisions, post-mortems' with emphasis added to the Details, the explanations and the screenshots (or other detailed explanations) part. Lety's keep it that way, and for the very same reasons reiterated by FTL and so well exemplified by Bill V and others over the years. If you don't feel like posting RDSS or other screenshots (or don't know how), at least please give the detailed - and educational - elements for your decision making process! (If you don't have time to post the details before the race runs but intend to follow up later with them - it's OK to post an initial simple prediction in this Forum as long as you follow up after with the details required for this Forum).

The Selections Forum on the other hand (as the sub-caption indicates) is simply for stating your race predictions - no details or explanations required, but any are also welcomed. Please also do the follow up courtesy to readers (like Partsnut today) of posting the results of your selections.

I'm not going to reclassify any posts. But let's re-commit to the different focuses of the 2 different race prediction Forums. Thanks Rmath for posting re that Saratoga race today - very nice outcome, congratulations! I watched and worked it (and the race before it) while testing the RDSS software update. Thanks Bill V for your detailed and educational comments. Thanks FTL for your thoughts and reminder re commitment to education and what makes P&C special.

Ted
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:28 PM   #3
Neil S.
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I'm very happy to see For The Lead posting again and I hope that he is feeling better. I agree that simply posting picks is not what this site is about. It is about sharing insights and approaches to a race in the hopes of helping others to better learn and utilize the concepts of the methodology which will hopefully lead them to more winners and consistent profitability.
I very rarely post races but when I do I try to provide comments on each horse whether I gave them a line or not and why I made the decisions I did. This is the true beauty of the game as this is where our wagering decisions come from. We may vary at times in how we pick our contenders, but the overall goal is a common one which is to win and sharing how we arrived at our common goal is the best part of the journey.

Neil
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:10 AM   #4
For The Lead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Craven View Post
I agree with For The Lead and with his explanation. We have TWO separate Forums on purpose for race predictions: Selections and Races of Interest.

The Races of Interest Forum sub-header reads: '*Detailed* Discussion of Races – Screen shots, decisions, post-mortems' with emphasis added to the Details, the explanations and the screenshots (or other detailed explanations) part. Lety's keep it that way, and for the very same reasons reiterated by FTL and so well exemplified by Bill V and others over the years. If you don't feel like posting RDSS or other screenshots (or don't know how), at least please give the detailed - and educational - elements for your decision making process! (If you don't have time to post the details before the race runs but intend to follow up later with them - it's OK to post an initial simple prediction in this Forum as long as you follow up after with the details required for this Forum).

The Selections Forum on the other hand (as the sub-caption indicates) is simply for stating your race predictions - no details or explanations required, but any are also welcomed. Please also do the follow up courtesy to readers (like Partsnut today) of posting the results of your selections.

I'm not going to reclassify any posts. But let's re-commit to the different focuses of the 2 different race prediction Forums. Thanks Rmath for posting re that Saratoga race today - very nice outcome, congratulations! I watched and worked it (and the race before it) while testing the RDSS software update. Thanks Bill V for your detailed and educational comments. Thanks FTL for your thoughts and reminder re commitment to education and what makes P&C special.

Ted
Thank you for your comments.
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Old 08-02-2018, 04:56 AM   #5
Bill V.
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kindness

hello Pace and Cap Friends

Thank you for the kind words.
Pace and Cap's heart and soul must and will always be to teach, listen and learn.

Thank you for staying with us.

Many years ago I asked a complete stranger
"can you help me?" Those 4 words surely lead me to my ultimate dreams of being a good handicapper,
But those words most importantly allowed me to find and be a very good friend.
We will always be here. I will never stop learning. Each time I do a race. I remember those early years,
how good it felt to not only win races but call the men who taught me and show them "I got it"

If we never forget or motto "friends helping friends win"
We all will grow together.

Thanks for being here
and thank you for helping me learn

Bill
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Old 08-02-2018, 09:54 AM   #6
raceman5
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I

would be happy to post a race here and there if i knew how to get the free pp's from whobet to here. I am retired now so I do have the time. guess I need a lesson in posting. LOL


Bob
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:37 AM   #7
Bill V.
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Dmr Race 6

Hi Bob

I had no Idea such a product existed, So I just tried this on the fly.
This is from whobet for today. I just clicked DMR race 6
when the PP's opened up. I just right mouse clicked inside the PP
I selected 'save as" from the menu, I saved the file and named it DMR_Race6.PDF

Then I attached the file into this post
This took me about 1-2 minutes



DMR_Race6.PDF.pdf

Last edited by Bill V.; 08-02-2018 at 10:44 AM.
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Old 08-02-2018, 10:50 AM   #8
rmath
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While it appears that I was not singled out by FTl for posting my selections only it sure felt like it.
Partsnut puts up his selections without any explanation and nothing was said about his post. ( I appreciate your posts Parts and hope you continue to do so )
If FTL had his way none of us would be allowed to post our picks UNLESS we give a complete breakdown of each race.
I have posted how I get my contenders and the types of races I prefer to play several times. I have openly shared this with anyone who wanted to use it .
I thought this was a Sartin web site: and not he FTL site: where we were all allowed to share our thoughts and findings with everyone.
Perhaps I have misunderstood the meaning of posting your SELECTIONs forone race or a whole card.
Rmath
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Old 08-02-2018, 11:19 AM   #9
Bill V.
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Hi Richard

Hi Richard

I'm sorry if you feel FTL singled you out. He did not mean to do what it might seem.

I have been in touch with FTL recently, First and foremost we are good friends.
We both talk "shop" about our health issues. and family and retirement

FTL and I did notice that something needed to be addressed, not to single people out. But we noticed that something should be addressed in regards to what is best for Pace and Cap.

Thankfully Ted posted an exceptional commentary. I think his post is so timely and improtant.
Ted is amazing, He always knows just when to step in and fix things.
He too wants Pace and Cap to be as it always has been
a place where friend help friends win

About FTL's site No it is not FTL's site This site belongs to Ted
He allows much more leeway than I ever did. Because he
is not here to play "games"

FTL simply post what he feels are teachings, and comments about races. He is not an insider, he has no "perks" Every one of his 1000's of postings
was done just as yours, mine, or anybody else's

He was accepted into our group, He follows the code of conduct
He has put in a tremedus amout of time and energy just to
share the tools that made him go from an Energy user to becoming a successful handicapper.

I was going to move your post from "Race of Interest" to Selections
But I read your post carfully and saw that you notice much more about the race than just readouts, I was so happy when I saw you bet on your selections, That is a nice solid near double digit winner.
Doc loved reports of winners that paid over $9.00



We all thank you, Richard, You are an excellent long time Sartin methodologist. You have documentation in the follow ups and a list of succesful race postings here at Pace and Cap

I am so honored that you are here.

Bless you

Bill
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Old 08-02-2018, 12:30 PM   #10
Ted Craven
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Richard,

The Selections Forum is for just plain Selections, no explanations required, no nothing - just picks, and results of one's picks. Doesn't matter what FTL (or anyone else) thinks. It has been this way since forever.

The Races of Interest Forum is for teaching, hence more background to the selection and betting process is required. Otherwise, the post should go in Selections! This too has been the case since we established the Races of Interest Forum.

Summary: Selections Forum is for bragging Races of Interest Forum is for teaching

You don't have to post the same degree of detail or screenshots that FTL or Bill V or me or anyone else does - you only have to make it clear to someone reading your discussion how you make your selections and wagers. Just give enough commentary that someone could follow along, or follow up with a question to you about it. If you have given your Guidelines for analysis previously, kindly provide a link to that post - even once in a while in your posts in the Races of Interest Forum. I myself am quite familiar with your decision process - but many others, including new readers or users of RDSS - may not be, and would otherwise be confused: for them it would be indistinguishable from a post in Selections which has no explanation.

I feel that's what I said (perhaps using fewer words?) in my post above. The suggestions given are for ALL readers, including a reminder to myself! If you feel you have a problem or confusion with any of these ideas, I certainly value your contributions to not only this Forum but to my personal knowledge of handicapping - and you have my phone number: please call me any time.

So, who do you like today at Saratoga!? Short version in Selections Forum, as long a version as you can handle in Races of Interest Forum!

Cheers,


Ted
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