Go Back   Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up > General Discussion
Mark Forums Read
Google Site Search Get RDSS Sartin Library RDSS FAQs Conduct Register Site FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts

General Discussion General Horse Racing Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2021, 12:41 PM   #1
Mitch44
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Villages, Fl.
Posts: 3,705
How much cheating is there in horseracing?

I found this article very interesting on our favorite sport of horseracing and cheating taken place within our favorite past time.

This is the link;

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/a...it-we-lose-it/

There is no doubt it exists along with all other places where large sums of money are involved. Stock Market, Banking, any form of gambling, all sports.

"If it exists at Saratoga, its everywhere" Here's where I disagree, he assumes a trainer that wins 25% is cheating. Lets take Todd Pletcher. I would estimate that at least 5 % of his wins comes from having the best horses in the country. He can pick and choose at sales and any owner with a good prospect seeks out the best trainers available. Pletcher and a few others in the game excel by having the best seek them out, to include the rich with buying power at sales. If they don't prove to be of high quality he gets rid of them to lesser trainers or drops them in the claiming ranks. Lesser trainers aren't able to cull lesser stock, their forced to train what they can get. A case of water seeking its own level.

The claiming of horses allows more proficient trainers to take advantage of inefficient trainers. I'm guessing but but again probably a 5 % edge. Ditto for layoff horses in that some just don't have the training ability to do that.

FTS form has always been know to the connections only. Only way to stop that is no betting on those type races(FTS). Money for those exhibition races and purses would have to come from somewhere, thus decreasing purses for other races. Not likely because why should others subsidize horses that will never win or other owners and trainers.

Great article and definitely cheating that must be addressed however his assumptions are incorrect. In any endeavor you'll have strong and more efficient individuals and they have advantages over their inefficient competitors or counterparts. I think that worth at least 5%.

Mitch44
Mitch44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 07:10 PM   #2
ranchwest
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,489
There's lots of legal avenues to improve a horse. Better feed, legal supplements, better staff including workout riders, better legal vet care. Many things.

But I am probably not the best person to be asking this question. I cut my handicapping teeth at Delta Downs. If I told you some of the stories from there, most would call me a liar. I am talking extreme misbehavior, not just a small edge in training ability.
ranchwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 07:30 PM   #3
ranchwest
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,489
I do recall two stories from DED that were reported in the news.

First, the "fog jockey incident". DED was a 6f track, with a mile race starting from a chute on the front side. Sylvester Carmouche was riding in the last race of the night, always a very low caliber race at DED. I believe it was a $1500 claimer, maybe $2000. Carmouche rode his horse to the end of the chute and parked it in the fog, waiting for the other horses to come around the track. When he heard the other horses in the fog, he took off. He won by something like 26 lengths and set a new track record. The track competition was on the decline, so setting a track record was a big deal. Of course, this immediately raised suspicion and after a lot of questioning, the pieces somewhat fell into place, but Carmouche would not admit what happened. Because the purse was so low, he could not be charged with a felony. Without a felony, the racing commission had limited recourse. But, they could give him repeated short-term suspensions until finally Carmouche came clean after several years. That meant he could be charged with a felony for lying to the commission. So, they then served him with a long-term suspension. I think he was finally reinstated after something like 5 years.

In another case, about 26 trainers were suspended for doping. After a lot of back and forth, the trainers requested that the tests be re-examined. It was found that the urine contained nicotine and caffeine. Since it was unlikely that the horses were smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee, all of the suspensions were voided.

That's just a small sample.

Last edited by ranchwest; 09-23-2021 at 07:34 PM.
ranchwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 10:52 PM   #4
ranchwest
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,489
A lot of people think that trainers claim good horses. Good claiming trainers claim horses they think they can improve. Many have all sorts of little secrets as to how they come to believe that they can improve the horse.
ranchwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2021, 10:58 PM   #5
ranchwest
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,489
I also want to note that my days at DED were long ago. I believe before the current ownership of the track. But there are many ways that cheating can take place. I've seen insider information, jockey collusion, all sorts of stuff.

Conversely, some practices are just normal transitions through the horse's training cycle, but people get the false impression that something fishy is going on.
ranchwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2021, 07:10 AM   #6
Mitch44
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Villages, Fl.
Posts: 3,705
Anyplace where lots of money changes hand there will be cheating. Hopefully this new Hisa act coming will stop much of this. Looking forward to standard rules for all tracks in regards to drugs, safety and all regulations etc. An excellent chance to clean up this mess.
Ditto for Steward's with standard decisions, perhaps a National Stewards for all tracks would be a good start.

Time will tell and hopefully heal many wounds.

Mitch44
Mitch44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Tax Law and Horseracing mick General Discussion 3 01-09-2018 02:46 PM
Ontario Horseracing Industry in Jeopardy barb craven General Discussion 7 06-16-2012 07:32 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:23 PM.