Fountain of Youth

[RAMON201]

Readouts using VALM.

[lone speed]

Tough race....thanks for putting up your workout of the race using one of the older Sartin programs, Ramon....

Shug is back in the Derby picture with two highly regarded horses in Honor Code and Top Billing who is in this race...

Imho...I would have thrown out the top ranked horse in We Miss Artie....turf line going to a dirt track. This one looks like Pletcher has the Blue Grass on synthetic in mind...

Race has too many speed runners....Top Billing should close down all the early speed, but hey, these are prep races towards the Derby in May...

Good skills.....

[DocSartinLearner]

Hi Ramon, thank you for putting this race GP Race 11, 1 1/16 Mile [Dirt]. I don't know about this older Sartin program C:\VALM.EXE. I'm learning to use RDSS, and, still I don't know too much. I need to look at many factors, but I don't know where to start. I noticed about real good Trainers like Todd A. Pletcher, Claude R. McGaughey, Michael J. Maker (Hot Trainer) for #5 General a Rod 5-1, etc. etc.

Thanks.
DocSartinLearner(DSL)

[RAMON201]

heres the chart

[Bill V.]

Hi Ramon

Doc would have like seeing the winner Wild go from 5th on BLBL to 2nd on the Validator

Nice work on both races

Bill

[RAMON201]

Hi Bill !
Doing the Risen Star and the Fountain of Youth were a lot of fun. Horses that have just turned three and are being asked to run like they have never run before presents a challange to the horse and the handicapper. This years Triple Crown should be an intersting one and I'm looking forward to working more of the races leading up to the Derby. I like how VALM just nailed the Risen Star. Theres still alot of power in the older programs.

[DocSartinLearner]

Hi Ramon201,
thanks for putting out the Results Chart for Race 11 Fountain of Youth at GP on Sat. Feb 22, 2014. Your program C:\VALM.EXE I don't know anything about, you know, Total Energy Expenditure and Primary Factors, etc., but with a little more practice, we need to have the real contenders reduced to Five only for our goal Bottom Line - Betting Line. Why have #2 We Miss Artie better than #12 Top Billing and also #13 East Hall. There are reasons we need to find out and would like to know. We all need to have Good Skills not just handicapping thoroughbreds but in finding values for betting.

Thanks.
DSL

[Appy]

The 9 Intense Holiday also topped my BL readout in RDSS. 9-2-13-14.
Maybe the new program includes the good stuff from older versions?

[Bill V.]

Originally Posted by Appy

The 9 Intense Holiday also topped my BL readout in RDSS. 9-2-13-14.
Maybe the new program includes the good stuff from older versions?

Valm is the hand enter version of Validator

Validator is the heart and soul of RDSS2

If you use RDSS2 in Val mode (as I do )
you get 98.9 % the exact same readouts as Validator
You will get some very slight different readouts in Valm
Only because you hand enter raw PP's and RDSS is using
Trackmaster data

[lone speed]

Originally Posted by DocSartinLearner

Hi Ramon201,
thanks for putting out the Results Chart for Race 11 Fountain of Youth at GP on Sat. Feb 22, 2014. Your program C:\VALM.EXE I don't know anything about, you know, Total Energy Expenditure and Primary Factors, etc., but with a little more practice, we need to have the real contenders reduced to Five only for our goal Bottom Line - Betting Line. Why have #2 We Miss Artie better than #12 Top Billing and also #13 East Hall. There are reasons we need to find out and would like to know. We all need to have Good Skills not just handicapping thoroughbreds but in finding values for betting.

Thanks.
DSL

Dsl...

I am not sure if I will shed some light on your question, but I will post my two cents.....

#2 We Miss Artie ranked on top on the some of the older Sartin programs and might rank on top of RDSS...I do not use Rdss, so I can't answer that particular point. In some of the programs after Thoromation, the ranking of horses with a great sustained fraction energy expenditure gave the horse a higher weight in the final rankings. The sustained energy expended was a strong move but it was on turf and more importantly, against a softer early pace fractions. Turf races are generally run in these fashion.

However, when the horses change surfaces to dirt racing, especially on traditional dirt surfaces and on speed favoring racetracks like Gulfstream Park ...the early fractions are generally run faster with faster fractions than what turf horses faced in previous turf races....I want to stress the word "generally"....in no way or form expressing guidelines or rules....

My comments are from my own previous use of Thoromation and some older Sartin programs before the advent of RDSS...but from looking at past races of many Rdss posted races...I believe my premise will be the same...Some of the programs after Thormation tend to "overvalue" the sustained energy fractions of horses coming off slower early pace fractions in the final compounded weighted rankings.....( This is only my opinion from my own experiences in working some of the older Sartin programs ) If others have different opinions and will like to share them on this public forum, by all means, feel freely to post them.

One of the guidelines that I have used for evaluating strong sustained turf runners on dirt is to evaluate their %percent median in today's matchup...If they lack in deficiency relative to the matchup of the main contenders' %percent median, then generally I will eliminate them from contention. This is what I concluded with We Miss Artie. Hope this helps....