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Old 10-16-2018, 03:30 PM   #1
geoffD
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Smile Physics Value of BL

Hello everyone,

In reading past FUs I have noticed that Howard always referred to using the "physics" value of a BL instead of 10 ft at each increment of the race. This is supposed to give an advantage. I understand the basic concept of this but I cannot quite wrap my head around this in an example with actual numbers.

Could someone explain this concept with perhaps an example for say 6 furlongs and compare it to using just 10 ft per length and display where this advantage actually is? My first post - just been bothering me why I can't understand this concept better (I understand that lengths are harder to make up at end of race just wish could be explained with numbers). Thank you
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:40 PM   #2
Bill V.
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Hello

Greetings

Welcome to Pace and Cap!

You ask a very good question to begin as a poster I appreciate it.

I am not 100 percent sure but I think this can be done easily
I hope Ted can help us out here, but I believe races done with RDSS
using the default settings base beaten lengths at a constant length
of 8 or 10 feet, no matter where on the track, but the option
of Validator/ Val4 setting measures beaten lengths at points of call
on a scale, this is why Doc warned about using over 9 BL in his older programs'and over 7.5 on Validator.

Thank You for asking
Bill
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:37 PM   #3
Jeebs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill V. View Post
Greetings

Welcome to Pace and Cap!

You ask a very good question to begin as a poster I appreciate it.

I am not 100 percent sure but I think this can be done easily
I hope Ted can help us out here, but I believe races done with RDSS
using the default settings base beaten lengths at a constant length
of 8 or 10 feet, no matter where on the track, but the option
of Validator/ Val4 setting measures beaten lengths at points of call
on a scale, this is why Doc warned about using over 9 BL in his older programs'and over 7.5 on Validator.

Thank You for asking
Bill
It is 8.3 feet for RDSS mode. Val I'm not sure as Doc did the variable lengths with 3rd fraction weighted more heavily than the first two fractions.

Last edited by Jeebs; 10-16-2018 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:42 PM   #4
Mitch44
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The length of a horse has been argued for years and actualmeasurements vary from 8 to 10 feet, just like humans come in all sizes. Somewould simply say why not use 9 feet or the average between the two. Sartinchose 10 feet per beaten length strictly because it made the math easy whengoing from feet per second ratings rather than a Phase 1 or TPR scale which used 1 lg. for each 1/5 of a second.


He also used 10 feet for commercial value knowing most wouldnot understand the true physics value of a beaten length. Sartin stated whengoing from Phase 1 or TPR to Feet Per Second (FPS) proficiency was increased38%. While this was a tremendous improvement FPS drove users crazy and stilldoes to this day. When one looks at two FPS numbers such as 59.60 vs. 58.78 andask how much is that difference in BL? Well their completely stumped which iswhy the FPS screen of RDSS is probably the least used. However it’s a valuable screenand a great tool.


The value of a BL varies with the distance being measuredbut primarily is greatly influenced by the rate of speed being measured. Alength in the 1st Fr is not the same as in the 3rd FRwhere horses are slowing down. From a physics point the value of a beatenlength is most influenced by the speed of the horse. Even through the distancemay be the same such as in a 6 F race, the increment is 2 F for both the 1st& 3rd FR but the rates of speed are difference as horses areslowing down in the 3rd Fr , some more so than others. The first Fris ran faster than the 3rd FR. The speed of the horse effects theproper evaluation of a BL. The easiest way to see this and understand it is todo the FPS (Dis. divided by time) for segments and then break down each segmentinto ¼, ½ & ¾ of a length. Note: FPS is Dis. divided by time) note dis. isin feet such as 660 feet per furlong being measured.


Sartin later settled on using 1 foot per 1/16 distance beingmeasured which proved more predicative and easily handled by todays computerswith their increased speed and memory. In reality he states and is correct that“in a mathematical formula it DOES NOT MATTER how long a horse is because thedifferential in the numerical results will be the same regardless of how manyfeet are assigned.” Or in other word a constant and consistent formula for allhorses rather than a hap hazard approach is the real key. Note this alsoapplies to picking contenders, pace lines, adjustments, approach to a race etc.etc. as far as using a consistent approach. These all must be treated the same.
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Old 10-17-2018, 03:00 PM   #5
Lt1
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Very well written and explained Mitch.
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Old 10-18-2018, 04:29 PM   #6
geoffD
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Thanks Gentlemen

Thanks for responding guys. I guess I should have paid better attention in Physics class years ago because I definitely have a mental block understanding this.

In the end I guess a complete understanding isn't necessary to properly utilize the program anyways. This is just an itch I have been trying to scratch since rereading past FUs.

I appreciate all of you taking the time to respond and Mitch44 for the in-depth thoughts!
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:27 PM   #7
Mitch44
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geoffD;
Don't feel bad not many do understand this and the only way to understand it is to do much of it by hand than it becomes cleared as the BL are not the same with slower times for the same distance.


As long as a uniform measurement is used and all horses are treated the same it all works out.


Sartin sort of honed this by distance I.e. 1 foot per F so 2 F would be 4 foot and 4 F would be 8 foot etc. Most of our racing distances tend to use the same measurements such as the 2nd call in sprints etc. (4F) Where the difference's really occur is in the 3rd Fr's as they vary with every distance pretty much.


The RDSS handles all this stuff and one does not need to really know any of it. Its a matter of just driving the car without having to be a mechanic. Try to grasp concept rather than every nut and bolt, the ride will be much smoother. Concept can be shock absorbers for a bumpy and rough ride.


See you along the road,
Mitch44
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:57 PM   #8
lone speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch44 View Post
Its a matter of just driving the car without having to be a mechanic. Try to grasp concept rather than every nut and bolt, the ride will be much smoother. Concept can be shock absorbers for a bumpy and rough ride.


See you along the road,
Mitch44
Mitch...

Great postings!!!!!!
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:04 PM   #9
mick
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Thanks, Mitch.
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Old 10-20-2018, 12:08 AM   #10
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Thanks lone speed and Mick.


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