Sprint or Route? - @7.5f Turf races - Pace and Cap

mick · 03-16-2018, 08:54 AM

I'm using Ted's Template 4 to build models for DS, DR, TS and TR. At Fair Grounds and Gulfstream, they run turf races at "about" 7 1/2 furlongs. I'm not sure whether to categorize them as sprint or route. For the present, I'm putting them under "Turf Route" because those races are run around two turns. Besides, when the rails are up, who knows how far those races are.

Any thoughts?

Mitch44 · 03-16-2018, 09:24 AM

I would consider them to be a route. Their kind of a bastard distance. Many of these are just a few feet short of a mile at GP because of the starting gate and run up distance while others are 7.5 F. Check the results charts which give the run up distance as they may ne very consistent at FG.

These extreme and varied run ups wreck havoc on 1st FR times and in the 3rd FR the deceleration factor as to who wins. I would recommend avoiding them all together. There is always another race in 20 minutes or so and even less with simulcasting. And if your not going to play them than why waste time recording the data..

Mitch44

Jeebs · 03-16-2018, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

I'm using Ted's Template 4 to build models for DS, DR, TS and TR. At Fair Grounds and Gulfstream, they run turf races at "about" 7 1/2 furlongs. I'm not sure whether to categorize them as sprint or route. For the present, I'm putting them under "Turf Route" because those races are run around two turns. Besides, when the rails are up, who knows how far those races are.

Any thoughts?

CJ Milkowski of TimeformUS has written many times about this distance over at PaceAdvantage. When run-up and rail settings are factored in, the horses are covering almost 1 1/16m even though the timing of the race starts later than that. As Mitch said, they are a bastard. Tomorrow's 10th and 13th races from Gulf in the $30k guaranteed contest at HorseTourneys are at this distance. May God have mercy on my selections! LMAO

Mitch44 · 03-16-2018, 11:51 AM

Jeebs:

For the reasons as stated in my post, races 10 & 13 tomorrow I would favor the horses in the top 3 DCL # on the Velocity-POH screen.

I wish you success tomorrow Tim.

Mitch44

tom · 03-16-2018, 04:47 PM

My 2 cents - I would model them separately, same with the 6.5 downhill at SA. Both seem to be rather unique.

Rverge · 03-17-2018, 02:03 PM

but are not the times and splits - fc-20's sc-40's final- like a sprint?? does one consider the stretch call 3/4?

RichieP · 03-17-2018, 02:59 PM

7.5f, 8.2f, 8.3f

I stay away from all of them, don't even open these races anymore (whacked out SR, run ups etc)

6.5f SA turf - only look at if ALL the runners contenders have lines from that dist/surface to evaluate

Why bother?

03-16-2018, 08:54 AM	#1
mick Abiding Student Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 711	Sprint or Route? - @7.5f Turf races I'm using Ted's Template 4 to build models for DS, DR, TS and TR. At Fair Grounds and Gulfstream, they run turf races at "about" 7 1/2 furlongs. I'm not sure whether to categorize them as sprint or route. For the present, I'm putting them under "Turf Route" because those races are run around two turns. Besides, when the rails are up, who knows how far those races are. Any thoughts? __________________ mick Illustrated Glossary

03-17-2018, 02:03 PM	#6
Rverge Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: pittsburgh, now! Lancaster, CA. Posts: 2,531	but are not the times and splits - fc-20's sc-40's final- like a sprint?? does one consider the stretch call 3/4? __________________ i love every single minute of life, and, if one is lucky,then you must give it to others. Last edited by Rverge; 03-17-2018 at 02:06 PM.

03-17-2018, 02:59 PM	#7
RichieP Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,014	7.5f, 8.2f, 8.3f I stay away from all of them, don't even open these races anymore (whacked out SR, run ups etc) 6.5f SA turf - only look at if ALL the runners contenders have lines from that dist/surface to evaluate Why bother? __________________ "Grampy I'm talking to you!"

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03-16-2018, 09:24 AM	#2
Mitch44 Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: The Villages, Fl. Posts: 3,705	I would consider them to be a route. Their kind of a bastard distance. Many of these are just a few feet short of a mile at GP because of the starting gate and run up distance while others are 7.5 F. Check the results charts which give the run up distance as they may ne very consistent at FG. These extreme and varied run ups wreck havoc on 1st FR times and in the 3rd FR the deceleration factor as to who wins. I would recommend avoiding them all together. There is always another race in 20 minutes or so and even less with simulcasting. And if your not going to play them than why waste time recording the data.. Mitch44

03-16-2018, 11:51 AM	#4
Mitch44 Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: The Villages, Fl. Posts: 3,705	Jeebs: For the reasons as stated in my post, races 10 & 13 tomorrow I would favor the horses in the top 3 DCL # on the Velocity-POH screen. I wish you success tomorrow Tim. Mitch44

03-16-2018, 04:47 PM	#5
tom Grade 1 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 644	My 2 cents - I would model them separately, same with the 6.5 downhill at SA. Both seem to be rather unique.