Poly Track: The bettors angle - Pace and Cap

dcox · 07-08-2008, 07:55 PM

What are the opinions and experiences here? Does it play like dirt/turf? Do you handicap it seperately? Have the trackmaster adjustments done a good job with it? Like/dislike?

It seems that I'm able to handicap Woodbine fine but most runners have lines on it. Is it a major ordeal to bring horses across the border?

lsosa54 · 07-08-2008, 09:00 PM

In Southern California, all the tracks are now some form of poly except FPX, the fair after Del Mar. If you keep a track profile and some model of your handicapping, it's the same process as it's always been. You handicap and bet accordingly once you use whatever you use to make final choices.

When you're looking at the change of meets, it can be tricky because the times do tend to vary. I remember the times at Del Mar were very slow last year and routes for awhile were being won by deep closers and I mean deep.

I don't use Trackmaster but I believe the Sartin programs handle the problem well with the 2 adjust, as long as you've done your best to insure the horse is a true contender and not just a slow horse, Del mar or not.

I think sustained runners have a better overall chance now than they once did on the hard baked SoCal surfaces of the 80's and 90's but I sometimes handicap the tapeta up at GG and I think it plays very fair to the matchup most times. I wish they had tapeta down south.

This will be the 2nd year of Del Mar's poly track so the only remaining unknown will be Santa Anita's new surface starting with Oak Tree and the Breeder's Cup.

Regarding shippers, there aren't a ton of them that win in Southern Cal. If they don't have a poly line to judge you might be bale to take a look at local workouts to make a judgement but the 2 adjust will do a nice job. If the horse has never run on poly, you'll never know for sure although I know there are folks out there who are developing an expertise on poly breeding, even by types of poly. I'll leave that fun to them.

As for the turf angle, I can't say that I've seen it any easier for a turf horse to move up on poly vs. dirt or for a poly horse who's never run on the turf to do the reverse. I still feel they are 2 distinctly different surfaces.

Psychotic Parakeet · 07-08-2008, 11:20 PM

The problem with the synthetics out here is that is such a vast difference between all three surfaces.

Exhibit A: Del Mar

This surface looks and feels like a semi-moist form of chocolate chip cookie dough. When you walk on it, you sink in an inch or so and it feels a bit tiresome on the knees.

Exhibit B: Hollywood Park

It looks like bird's nest material, but has a "spring" to it when you walk upon it. Feels like walking on a mini-trampoline. In my opinion, this is the best surface as far as synthetics go out here in So Cal.

Exhibit C: Santa Anita

This picture was taken during one of the many cancelled race cards early on in the meet. On their open house day where they allowed people to walk on the track, it felt like a combination of both Del Mar and Hollywood Park, but with a ton of depth near the rail.

As far as trends go, I am still fishing around the previous Del Mar meet's charts to find things. I will say that the Unusual Heat foals do quite well on this surface.

lonestarracefan · 07-09-2008, 12:15 AM

From what I understand that Del Mar will be watering Polycrap more hoping to speed up that quicksand.

Pro Ride will be redoing Santa Anita main track prior to the Oak Tree Meet and Hollywood Park will be adding more fiber, rubber and wax to Cushion Track. They maybe re-waxing the whole thing from what I read.

I did well on all the So Cal Tracks and did well last year on PID Tapeta. I didn't play PID this year and Golden Gates because they run to cheap of horses for me. I stay away from claiming races under 10k and cheap MC races.

I am hot and cold at Turfway and Keeneland is my kryptonite, though I cashed my biggest payoff ever at Keeneland and my best single day at Turfway.

I found keeping GOOD a Track Profile helps a whole lot and look for trends.

lsosa54 · 07-09-2008, 06:22 AM

[QUOTE=Psychotic Parakeet;35033]The problem with the synthetics out here is that is such a vast difference between all three surfaces.

Absolutely great pics - looks like the mess I'd find in the park across the street after a rain!

lsosa54 · 07-09-2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestarracefan

I did well on all the So Cal Tracks and did well last year on PID Tapeta. I didn't play PID this year and Golden Gates because they run to cheap of horses for me.

Same for me, Joe. I have done well when I've played GG but I've only played PID once.

My records show me that I do best in larger non maiden, non 2yo, fields 7-8 and up where the ML fav is 3 to 1 and PID just hasn't had many this year. I did play PID last Saturday and did well. Same for GG - I only play when there's a decently large non maiden field, which can be rare.

PLN didn't have many and SOL is starting off short.

I do play the turf and I will play 2yo later on in the year.

Sometimes I only get a couple of races a day but one nice mutuel is all you need to keep the bankroll growing.

RichieP · 07-09-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychotic Parakeet

The problem with the synthetics out here is that is such a vast difference between all three surfaces.

Exhibit A: Del Mar

This surface looks and feels like a semi-moist form of chocolate chip cookie dough. When you walk on it, you sink in an inch or so and it feels a bit tiresome on the knees.

Exhibit B: Hollywood Park

It looks like bird's nest material, but has a "spring" to it when you walk upon it. Feels like walking on a mini-trampoline. In my opinion, this is the best surface as far as synthetics go out here in So Cal.

Exhibit C: Santa Anita

This picture was taken during one of the many cancelled race cards early on in the meet. On their open house day where they allowed people to walk on the track, it felt like a combination of both Del Mar and Hollywood Park, but with a ton of depth near the rail.

As far as trends go, I am still fishing around the previous Del Mar meet's charts to find things. I will say that the Unusual Heat foals do quite well on this surface.

Great post "Psycho"!!
They say a picture says a thousand words. There it is.

Tim Y · 07-09-2008, 12:20 PM

A friend who goes to Anita all the time says the crap they put in smelled a lot like old tires and was overwhelming.

Give me horse poop any day over that odor.

tfm · 07-09-2008, 12:26 PM

What? No LOVE for POLY? This appears to be consistent.

I envision a time, in the very near future, where FAIR RACING will be a common thing. I realize that this will just about KILL all those relying on SPEED BIASES and BUSH TRACKS. You know, all those 'fighters' that are actually CARRIED by the track, for example.

Time to taking the handicapping to another level.

Personally, I find POLY to be AS predictable as TURF and thus more predictable than dirt.

It's all good.

delayjf · 07-09-2008, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Give me horse poop any day over that odor.

I LOVE the smell of horse poop in the morning - smells like....a winning bet.

07-08-2008, 07:55 PM	#1
dcox Avid Student Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Lone Star Park (50 miles) Posts: 50	Poly Track: The bettors angle What are the opinions and experiences here? Does it play like dirt/turf? Do you handicap it seperately? Have the trackmaster adjustments done a good job with it? Like/dislike? It seems that I'm able to handicap Woodbine fine but most runners have lines on it. Is it a major ordeal to bring horses across the border? __________________ Good luck and good handicapping!

07-08-2008, 09:00 PM	#2
lsosa54 Grade 1 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC and San Diego Posts: 627	In Southern California, all the tracks are now some form of poly except FPX, the fair after Del Mar. If you keep a track profile and some model of your handicapping, it's the same process as it's always been. You handicap and bet accordingly once you use whatever you use to make final choices. When you're looking at the change of meets, it can be tricky because the times do tend to vary. I remember the times at Del Mar were very slow last year and routes for awhile were being won by deep closers and I mean deep. I don't use Trackmaster but I believe the Sartin programs handle the problem well with the 2 adjust, as long as you've done your best to insure the horse is a true contender and not just a slow horse, Del mar or not. I think sustained runners have a better overall chance now than they once did on the hard baked SoCal surfaces of the 80's and 90's but I sometimes handicap the tapeta up at GG and I think it plays very fair to the matchup most times. I wish they had tapeta down south. This will be the 2nd year of Del Mar's poly track so the only remaining unknown will be Santa Anita's new surface starting with Oak Tree and the Breeder's Cup. Regarding shippers, there aren't a ton of them that win in Southern Cal. If they don't have a poly line to judge you might be bale to take a look at local workouts to make a judgement but the 2 adjust will do a nice job. If the horse has never run on poly, you'll never know for sure although I know there are folks out there who are developing an expertise on poly breeding, even by types of poly. I'll leave that fun to them. As for the turf angle, I can't say that I've seen it any easier for a turf horse to move up on poly vs. dirt or for a poly horse who's never run on the turf to do the reverse. I still feel they are 2 distinctly different surfaces. Last edited by lsosa54; 07-08-2008 at 09:05 PM.

07-08-2008, 11:20 PM	#3
Psychotic Parakeet Grade 3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Golden Gate Fields Posts: 71	The problem with the synthetics out here is that is such a vast difference between all three surfaces. Exhibit A: Del Mar This surface looks and feels like a semi-moist form of chocolate chip cookie dough. When you walk on it, you sink in an inch or so and it feels a bit tiresome on the knees. Exhibit B: Hollywood Park It looks like bird's nest material, but has a "spring" to it when you walk upon it. Feels like walking on a mini-trampoline. In my opinion, this is the best surface as far as synthetics go out here in So Cal. Exhibit C: Santa Anita This picture was taken during one of the many cancelled race cards early on in the meet. On their open house day where they allowed people to walk on the track, it felt like a combination of both Del Mar and Hollywood Park, but with a ton of depth near the rail. As far as trends go, I am still fishing around the previous Del Mar meet's charts to find things. I will say that the Unusual Heat foals do quite well on this surface. __________________ There is no power greater than knowledge...

07-09-2008, 12:15 AM	#4
lonestarracefan Grade 1 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 313	From what I understand that Del Mar will be watering Polycrap more hoping to speed up that quicksand. Pro Ride will be redoing Santa Anita main track prior to the Oak Tree Meet and Hollywood Park will be adding more fiber, rubber and wax to Cushion Track. They maybe re-waxing the whole thing from what I read. I did well on all the So Cal Tracks and did well last year on PID Tapeta. I didn't play PID this year and Golden Gates because they run to cheap of horses for me. I stay away from claiming races under 10k and cheap MC races. I am hot and cold at Turfway and Keeneland is my kryptonite, though I cashed my biggest payoff ever at Keeneland and my best single day at Turfway. I found keeping GOOD a Track Profile helps a whole lot and look for trends. __________________ Joe

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07-09-2008, 06:22 AM	#5
lsosa54 Grade 1 Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NYC and San Diego Posts: 627	[QUOTE=Psychotic Parakeet;35033]The problem with the synthetics out here is that is such a vast difference between all three surfaces. Absolutely great pics - looks like the mess I'd find in the park across the street after a rain!

07-09-2008, 12:20 PM	#8
Tim Y turf historian Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,455	A friend who goes to Anita all the time says the crap they put in smelled a lot like old tires and was overwhelming. Give me horse poop any day over that odor.

07-09-2008, 12:26 PM	#9
tfm Former member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,136	What? No LOVE for POLY? This appears to be consistent. I envision a time, in the very near future, where FAIR RACING will be a common thing. I realize that this will just about KILL all those relying on SPEED BIASES and BUSH TRACKS. You know, all those 'fighters' that are actually CARRIED by the track, for example. Time to taking the handicapping to another level. Personally, I find POLY to be AS predictable as TURF and thus more predictable than dirt. It's all good.