How to resolve this conflicting informtion?

[Rivegauche610]

Greetings, a new user here but one familiar with the Sartin and Brohamer basics for many years now and who recently took the RDSS plunge. Many thanks to Ted for much help.

My question centers on the information given by several crucial screens, screens which are central to some old hands' decision - making, and hence ought ultimately to be mine, also.

I speak of Energy, TPR+E/L, BL/BL and Segments screens.

My paceline selection is generally spot-on with the program's. I will occasionally override when I feel the situation warrants, but not often.

Attached are my screen shots in numerical order.

Notice the consensus between the first three screens, then notice the graphical depiction of the final fraction and finish at Segments. How am I to account for the discrepancy between what the numbers tell me and what the graphical depiction shows me? I am inclined to lean toward the numerical evidence more than the pictorial. Please advise? Thank you all. I am enjoying this program immensely although why the horses can't understand that they are to follow the TPR+E/L beats the hell out of me.

Kevin

[Mark]

The Segment screen illustrations represent:
1. First fraction
2. second fraction
3. True Speed +final fraction

These graphics help to see who is the fastest away from the gate to the 1st Call. And then who may run a 2nd fraction that will overcome the deficit of the first fraction. It is not the 2nd Call! That is represented in the columns displaying beaten lengths to the left.

The farthest right of the illustrations in essence double counts final fraction and will be helpful if you feel that the race will run other than early and that a Sustained type will overtake the Pressers.

I believe this is creating the confusion for you.

[Rivegauche610]

So one has to make a discrimination between the middle panel (F2) and the third panel because they are not really sequential? I don't understand why the final fraction is "double counted" and why it therefore isn't simply a representation of the last part of the race as F1 and F2 represent the 1st and 2nd thirds of the race. Put another way, F2 is the logical successor to F1, but F3 is an entirely different outcome because it isn't simply the representation of the end of the race but is a composite showing what happens when you combine two factors? That means to me "If X, then the F2 result; if Y, then the F3 result". ?

[Mitch44]

What this screen does is show moves in the different portions of the race. I suppose the "double counted" 3rd Fr is because a horse gaining a length there is worth two because others are decelerating 1 length. A valid Bradshaw concept.

I had the energy program however its been so long I forget how those panels were set up. I believe the way you thought they were here.

Like you this particular screen is totally confusing to me except to see moves. However I'm aware of others that consult it every race and wouldn't be without it. It makes a little more sense once you know what it actually represents. Personally I seldom use it. Additionally just because a horse makes a move in the 3rd Fr doesn't mean it'll get up, but definitely a horse that deserves more scrutiny etc. Same with the second panel.

For me what would make more sense would be to have to have 1st FR, SC and 3rd FR./ Final ( doubled up or the 3rd panel matching what B/L B/L determined or the computers final analysis) What your looking for can be determined through other readouts. My best advise to you is now that you understand it try to comprehend it. If it still confuses you then don't use it. There are other read out and factors in RDSS that are better and less confusing.

As I said IMO I think the best use of this screen is to detect moves and then look closer at these horses so their not overlooked in your analysis.

Best of luck,
Mitch44

[Rivegauche610]

Thank you both, Mark and Mitch!

[Mark]

Now that you know what you are looking at, work a couple 100 races and then make a decision about what you learn from consulting this screen.

The factor TS +F3 is illustrated in the panel closest to the right because research shows that this is a very good factor. Certainly in Turf racing it is deadly. But in any race that variegates OTE, the top 4 horses win a large percentage of the time. Why put the same information that is already shown in beaten length totals in the columns to the left?

Do the work, then you will know for yourself. No one ever advertised RDSS2 as a black box. You have to apply your handicapping knowledge and a high percentage of the time if you get the correct pacelines these screens will faithfully represent the likely outcome of the race!

[Bill V.]

If you use RDSS2 in Validator mode, The 3rd panel
is the VDC readout, Just like Doc wanted it .

The problem is this screen is still skrewed up
because the little horses dont match the rankings

In this example
The best VDC horse is #4 Grand. Its ranked #1
The #3 Cosmic is 2nd best VDC but the rankings and little horse are in position 3 ????
The #7 Candy has the 3rd best VDC but is ranked and positioned 2nd :/

The best advice I can give you is just use The first 2 panels

[Mitch44]

Originally in the Thoromation program the Doc had little horses running across the screen which represented how the race would run and finish. To me this would make sense on this screen. E.g. the order after the 1st Fr, order at the SC and the 3rd panel represent the finish as the computer sees it, say through BL/BL. Graphically this would represent the race as it unfolds. Of course as always it would be dependent on the pace lines picked, as everything is and the type races one plays.
Mitch44

[Bill V.]

Yes Mitch

You are correct, and may I add there were also 2 "PrePlay" screens
That showed the race broken down into EP MP and LP

The two screens were called EXDC and SP and they were separated.
You had to go out of the EXdC screen and go into the SP screen.
Also the thoromation horses running across the screen were on a third screen'
Yes it was a step to switch from screen to screen, ( a easy step )
All you had to do was hit enter and select the screen from the main menu.

EXDC was a normal view and SP was weighted to show the race winner
most likely If the race ran Other Than Early

I think Teds only downfall with the Segments screen is he tried to put too much clutter/ readouts one screen


In validator the readout is called The Incremental Match Up Graph.
This is all that was shown
The heading for panel 3 is 3F + Total Pace
but in truth the 3rd panel was just the VDC rankings

[Mark]

I think I would give my left nut to have Thoromation updated to work on the modern operating systems without having to enter paceline information.

That program which actually was two was the beginning of Energy versus Velocity and incorporated everything that RDSS is based upon. There are many nice presentation aspects to RDSS and the adjustment process works from Trackmaster variants rather than the triangulated variant of Total Energy. Your paceline selection and contenders had to be spot on or you got some off the wall results. Back then I really didn't know what I was doing so couldn't take advantage of it. It always made me nervous when it called for the #2 adjustment because that usually would slew the race from EXDC to SP.

The Doc and Jim were so far ahead of mainstream handicapping, in another zip code.