Substitute for CSR & VDC ? - Pace and Cap

CheckMark · 12-28-2021, 05:40 AM

Hi everyone,

I know I am a past RDSS user and sound very stupid of asking a question of such but does anyone know a substitute of VDC and CSR?

Like I can easily find the BPP and PL easily but could CSR be the SR+TV found in the daily racing form and the VDC be a pace figure? And if not what I said then what would be a good substitute in the pp’s that I can use?

Thanks just wanting to try out something new for my selections

MJS6916 · 12-28-2021, 11:12 AM

You won’t find a substitute for VDC.

CSR can be replaced with any
final time speed figures you trust.

Ted Craven · 12-28-2021, 01:02 PM

Moved this discussion from Darryl's video thread (good housekeeping ...).

Re CSR, site-google CSR formula, it's public. As Mike says, any good final time speed fig should work as well.

Re VDC (Velocity relative to Deceleration, or - Deceleration relative to Velocity

) - a simplistic approach you could try is the methodology 'Deceleration' factor and formula from the RDSS Velocity screens: 2nd call divided by 3rd fraction. You could try that or, maybe a 2nd call Pace fig divided by a Late pace fig if both were computed on the same basis. However, this will inevitably over-rate slower horses at the 2nd call: if you're travelling more slowly, you'll slow down less. You could try tempering that formula by merging it with a final time rating, to favour the horses going faster yet decelerating less, relative to the rest. But then you also have to filter out horses who are simply running uncompetitively behind a fast pace. Etc, etc ...

Still, the above is NOT V/DC. There's more magic in it yet

Ted

ranchwest · 12-28-2021, 03:09 PM

Good answer, Ted. I have looked at BRIS pace figs. I find it okay to compare, say, the 4f pace fig to other 4F pace figs, but the 2F, 4F and 6F often don't match up very well to the final Speed Rating from what I can see. Ideally, I think a V/DC "equivalent" would show a constant pace with the pace and speed comparing favorably to par. At least that is the way it seems to me. But I don't have much confidence in the pace figs from BRIS, so this doesn't work well for me. So, I do my own calculations, which doesn't work for most people... too much work.

tom · 12-29-2021, 11:10 AM

BRIS pace figs have a lot of problems, but they can be fixed. Another work around is convert them to actual times. I figured out what the pace and speed figs were in times, at least as they are used in the MultiCaps program.
If you are interested, do a search at Paceadvantage for my posts in the handicapping section about converting BRIS.Once you are dealing with times, you can do more things. I'd be happy to discuss it with you there. I don't think it proper to do so here.

12-28-2021, 05:40 AM	#1
CheckMark Conley Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Fergus, Canada Posts: 1,777	Substitute for CSR & VDC ? Hi everyone, I know I am a past RDSS user and sound very stupid of asking a question of such but does anyone know a substitute of VDC and CSR? Like I can easily find the BPP and PL easily but could CSR be the SR+TV found in the daily racing form and the VDC be a pace figure? And if not what I said then what would be a good substitute in the pp’s that I can use? Thanks just wanting to try out something new for my selections __________________ Life is an adventure, enjoy it and live every day as if it were your last- Barb Craven

12-28-2021, 11:12 AM	#2
MJS6916 Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 324	You won’t find a substitute for VDC. CSR can be replaced with any final time speed figures you trust. __________________ just keeping my trajectory in the positive http://sartinmethodology.com/pubs/RD...d_Glossary.pdf

12-28-2021, 01:02 PM	#3
Ted Craven Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 8,853	Moved this discussion from Darryl's video thread (good housekeeping ...). Re CSR, site-google CSR formula, it's public. As Mike says, any good final time speed fig should work as well. Re VDC (Velocity relative to Deceleration, or - Deceleration relative to Velocity ) - a simplistic approach you could try is the methodology 'Deceleration' factor and formula from the RDSS Velocity screens: 2nd call divided by 3rd fraction. You could try that or, maybe a 2nd call Pace fig divided by a Late pace fig if both were computed on the same basis. However, this will inevitably over-rate slower horses at the 2nd call: if you're travelling more slowly, you'll slow down less. You could try tempering that formula by merging it with a final time rating, to favour the horses going faster yet decelerating less, relative to the rest. But then you also have to filter out horses who are simply running uncompetitively behind a fast pace. Etc, etc ... Still, the above is NOT V/DC. There's more magic in it yet Ted __________________ RDSS - Racing Decision Support System™

12-28-2021, 03:09 PM	#4
ranchwest Grade 1 Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,489	Good answer, Ted. I have looked at BRIS pace figs. I find it okay to compare, say, the 4f pace fig to other 4F pace figs, but the 2F, 4F and 6F often don't match up very well to the final Speed Rating from what I can see. Ideally, I think a V/DC "equivalent" would show a constant pace with the pace and speed comparing favorably to par. At least that is the way it seems to me. But I don't have much confidence in the pace figs from BRIS, so this doesn't work well for me. So, I do my own calculations, which doesn't work for most people... too much work.

12-29-2021, 11:10 AM	#5
tom Grade 1 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 644	BRIS pace figs have a lot of problems, but they can be fixed. Another work around is convert them to actual times. I figured out what the pace and speed figs were in times, at least as they are used in the MultiCaps program. If you are interested, do a search at Paceadvantage for my posts in the handicapping section about converting BRIS.Once you are dealing with times, you can do more things. I'd be happy to discuss it with you there. I don't think it proper to do so here.