Comparative Class Chart

[ssag0]

Can anyone please explain how to make the trk to trk Comparative Class Chart? The one posted in the member contribution section is 2006,So How would one go about updating it? Thanks.

[Mitch44]

That track class was done by tracks and its pretty obvious that tracks that pay out higher purses attract the better horses such as Bel, SA,GP etc. The problem with such a chart is that all races are not created equal. At any track regardless of it's track class, there are strong and weak races of the same class structure at that track or from track to track,strong or weak fields of the same types of races.

Sartin considered Total Energy to be class, of course others consider Speed Rating to be the dominant factor. Regardless of how done its one daunting task considering how many different tracks, classes, distances and surfaces there are.

American Turf Monthly publishes a class chart. Use the link below but be sure to click on the update(view current equalization chart). It adjusts to beaten lengths so its compatible with RDSS and Sartin pace numbers. Note: with RDSS the variant and track to track adjustments are included, this class adjustment would be an addition to this and not included in RDSS.

https://www.americanturf.com/equalization/

I can't vouch for its accuracy but good luck with it and let us know how it performs and your assessment. I'm not sure if its taken from horses final times by man-made class structure or from pars broken down by distance,surface and class and they don't provide too many details. Man-made class structure is the worse for accuracy.

Mitch44

[DaveEdwards]

As far as comparative class, is this not done within RDSS anyway where the class of the race that horses have previously taken part in is shown? I thought this can then be used as the basis of comparison?

Sorry if I'm missing the point here.


I've recently read the Handicappers Condition Book for the first time. I've had it a while as it was on the early recommended reading list, but had never got around to reading it.
And a very illuminating read it was too! As Mitch points out the different strength between races within the same class structure is something to be very aware of.

I can honestly say that I had never given the issue a second thought, but I have learned a great deal. Not learned to the point where I know it all, but I have learned that there is an awful lot going on that I was completely unaware of. An interesting read and one that I shall be revisiting again soon.

[ssag0]

Thanks

[Mitch44]

Dave:

The RC (Race Class) as seen on the Original screens is somewhat of a misnomer and fools even those experienced users of RDSS. Fooled because of a name that really is an unintentional feint or misdirection. Read its definition in the Glossary. It was one of those things that Sartin discarded as being ineffective but was probably left in because of demand by those that were not adaptable to new ideas or they thought it was better than its proven ability through testing and never tested it themselves.

Think about this, its figure is obtained from the Speed Ratings of all the horses in the field. What effect should a horse that finished last in a 12 horse field have on any rating or factor? Regardless if this number is averaged or weighted by finish many horses in a race serve only to make this an ineffective factor in the majority of cases and situations. Just not based on any sound principles or concepts.

This rating is provided by TrackMaster according to Sartin's request and guidelines from a long time ago. I'm sure if he was still with us this would no longer be in the program. Sartin was constantly evolving and adapting to overcome the game of horse racing. What we have is state of art at that time period with some things left due to demand, probably. It cost $$$ to have TrackMaster change any of this. Its up to you the user to keep records and determine what within RDSS is viable or effective. This is a real problem for many because inconsistency of contender and pace line selection will and does skew any record.

BTW Sartin gave up after trying numerous ways to incorporate a class adjustment into pace figures way back(circa 1988 or before) in the old Yellow Manual, he recommends against it. I also would recommend against it and I know of no effective way to incorporate class into pace figures. The American Turf Monthly maybe worth an investigation for that but I remain doubtful. If ssagO goes that route I would be interested in his finding but I'm doubtful at best.

The Handicappers Condition book is an excellent read and one that will give insight into the conditions of a race. It helps to determine if a horse is a contender or a pretender. Most players have no idea if a horse is properly placed or not.

Mitch44

[DaveEdwards]

Oh my word! Thanks Mitch, really.

I honestly thought that RC was an official class rating for the race as designated by the overall horse racing authorities in the US! Talk about assumptions being the mother of all...…..Lesson for today, read the glossary.

I have only recently read Quinn's book and was still trying to get straight in my head how I could use the RC as a way of splitting races within a price, i.e. $4k NW2 L and $4k NW2 6M etc.

I haven't made any betting decisions based on that yet either thankfully. Glad I posted this as you've saved me a little heartache further down the line for sure!

Thank you again.

[Mitch44]

The RC technically is a Race Class and uses Speed Ratings from the race the horse ran in,its just that its a poor version of class and one I wouldn't bet my money on.

Some class rating use pars to determine deviations from the norm for final time. They toss out the highs and lows and average the rest for a number. Speed Ratings do the same thing.

All this stuff will get winners, some more than others. However they all have their faults such as they all take an average which still isn't very precise, they treat all them the same using manmade class designations which also aren't precise, and they still fail to distinguish between a weak or strong field for those same class of manmade categories. Additionally they all rely on times of the Pace of the race (POR) and make all their decisions from unadjusted times. Pars don't account for variants but pars are used to determine variants. Say what? Yea run that one around your brain housing group a few times for it to get absorbed.

Sartin believed that the POH (pace of the horse) of winners should be used because winners overcome the pace of the race .

While all this seems deficient and it is from a scientific point of accuracy, it does work because it uses a consistent applied procedure. It actually made picking winners easier, so it gets more winners and they also lose races because of the weakness of the particular number. Players now get more winners do to these advancements.

Any service that provides Speed Ratings or Class ratings have their own beliefs and procedures. Where that leaves us is to use the one with the best number etc. and the individual must decide that. Its like cars or ice cream flavors, we tend to decide what we like, but when it comes to laying your money on the finish line doing some research pays off. Horses definitely are not created equal. Some buy a car because of brand instead of researching safety features, gas mileage, customer reviews etc. You get what you pay for. Nothing stands still,a Chevy may have been the best car there was in 1955-1958 but not necessarily today. Todays houses cost more but have many cheaper materials within them so the same profit can be had. How many brick houses or copper pipes do you see?

Sartin never believed in pars and determined that the horses within the race shape or determine the pars. I agree with that.I also think class has within it consistency of performance and earning power whether average per start or total earnings.

I like within RDSS the CR rating for the class of the horse verses the RC rating. The difference is CR is a measurement of the horse's class not the class of any one race. The modern day purse structure has diluted the power of the CR rating of a horse but it still is a very effective tool that is under utilized. Members should read up on how it is figured, its in the original Yellow Manual and also featured in one of the first 5 Follow Up's published. I don't recall which one but that will narrow your search quickly.Read both.

No one to my knowledge has figured a way to incorporate a class number such as a horses CR into a pace number. Sartin advised against it after failing. If Sartin was still with us I believe from his writings and todays computers and services he may have constructed his own race class ratings using Total Pace as the key ingredient, its a daunting task for an individual but not impossible which was what Andy Beyer accomplished. Not only do the same class of races differ in strength they also change each year. Some years there are many good 3 yr .olds and the next perhaps only one and a TC winner. Ditto for 4 and up at different distances or surfaces etc.

I get around much of this stuff based on my experience and back testing of different factors and ideas. Everyone should test.


Mitch44

[Lefty]

In one of the later Follow-Ups, Sartin said the top 5 total energy horses won 97% of the time. I blve that o be correct.

[Mitch44]

It is a very high percentage and there are other things that get a very high percent.


The user should investigate other options also. Profit also nets a very high percentage and is a lot faster, plus speeds up the process.


Mitch44

[Lt1]

Direct from the Doc on class
Class = Performance = Class
Performance is Total Energy. Total energy equals class.
That is as simple as it gets. As long as you enter true contenders with representative pacelines the program will get you the winners. Keeping up to date track models and knowing the track[s] you play is another key element of the puzzle.
Tim