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Old 07-07-2017, 01:16 PM   #1
papajohn3times
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Question Brohamer lecture tapes

Hello all
I have the complete set of a workshop conducted by Tom Brohamer in 1990. a 12 set tape set that came in a blue box from O'henry house. Does anyone know where I can find the workbook that was compiled by Dick Scmidt. I would be of course,willing to buy a copy as listening to the tapes without the workbook is kinda hard to decipher
Thanks to all!
Papa John
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Old 07-11-2017, 07:54 PM   #2
mick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papajohn3times View Post
Hello all
I have the complete set of a workshop conducted by Tom Brohamer in 1990. a 12 set tape set that came in a blue box from O'henry house. Does anyone know where I can find the workbook that was compiled by Dick Scmidt. I would be of course,willing to buy a copy as listening to the tapes without the workbook is kinda hard to decipher
Thanks to all!
Papa John
I agree. I've listened to hours of those tapes and a copy of the workbook would be very helpful. If you find one, I'll split the cost with you.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:19 PM   #3
papajohn3times
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Thanks Mick!
If I ever find one,I will copy it and send it to you NO CHARGE OF COURSE!
While I'm at it,this may not be the correct forum but I have been back and forth trying to justify some pacelines
Ever since Ted explained Perceptor to us all, I have been looking at lines a little differently
What I am confused a little is for example,when Bill V does a race(and others also) he says that "i will use his last race because it was a plus line" now sometimes that line although current of course,is way off of the horses's perceptor total,sometimes even 50.00 or more? I can see if it's a off track,wrong suface but if it is within range of today's race distance,would you or others go back to find a line with a much smaller perceptor total?
Although I habe been doing well,it still bothers me to use those last lines with the bigger perceptor totals
Any ideas from you or other's?
Thanks again to all,member's of the finest "chat" room ever!
Papa John
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:25 PM   #4
dlivery
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I have not used the Perceptor for anything other than how the horse ran the race.
Win Lose the last line has what we can determinate if the horse was ready to race.
But this is new twist to look further into and regards to keeping records
The bank account has all the records I need to know if I m doing well or snoozing
Thanks for all of your help in bringing this subject up as there more ways to win we just have to follow what works
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:06 PM   #5
Bill V.
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Methodology

Papa
I use certain tools and follow certain guidelines within the methodology.
The best preceptor is one of many DIFFERENT options we can employ
It's not that I don't think you will do great with the preceptor totals
I just choose not to pay attention to them.

Some of the best users focus on the preceptor. Others use speed ratings, or total energy, or
TPR or Med energy. I know a couple of excellent handicappers that only use the visual Match Up. I also know a few men who don't use RDSS at all. They are happy and get solid results using old Dos methodology programs like ENERGY.

When you say,"when Bill V does a race(and others also) he says that "I will use his last race because it was a plus line"


I am not selecting that line solely on the fact that it is a plus paceline.
I am looking for + or maybe (+) pacelines of course but that includes
other factors.
I focus on the last paceline first, If I feel the last line is not a representative line of what the horse does when in form, at today's distance surface or class\ total energy, I move to the next line and ask the same questions again. Till I find a plus paceline in a recent form cycle window, that is the line
I use to *calculate my phase 1 numbers. I follow the lessons and examples from the original pace line manual and The original Pace Makes the Race
I do very well, but I also do very well using the best speed rating of the last 3 at a comparable distance/ surface, The way I worked races with Doc many times. The key is to believe in what you feel is best.

* RDSS calculates

The very best advice I can ever pass to other Methodology users is.
Settle on one set of criteria for picking pacelines, and focus on readouts you feel give you the best chance to win.


I will show 3 horses I bet today 2 of them won and the other placed
The #2 horse from Evangeline and the 8 and 7 from This.

All 3 times I used a recent plus pace line at a comparable distance and
surface starting with line 1
I paid absolutely no attention to the preceptor. Did this hurt me of help me?
that is not important, what helped me is I looked for things that I know work for me.
any questions I will be glad to help
Hope you find you comfort zone


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Old 07-12-2017, 11:44 PM   #6
Jeebs
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Bill gives some sound advice. Also, make sure whatever approach you choose to go with, that you are consistent with it. Mixing this with that, etc will simply lead to confusion. Keep records so that you can play to your strengths. If you tend to show profitability and a high yield of winners with your contenders in certain types of races, exploit that strength. Knowing when to take a drive to "El Paso" as Bill sometimes will say can save you from making bad decisions.
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:30 AM   #7
Lt1
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Hi John. Bill is spot on when he states that there are several different ways to select pacelines. I myself use best of the last 3 perceptor at a comparable surface and distance. I don't use off track lines on fast tracks but that's just my way of doing things. As far as how far to go back on a horse I let the class of the race determine that. I find it's advisable to stay very recent with cheaper horses but I'm more forgiving with better horses. Generally speaking I usually end up with a line in the last 3 races and not more then 5 back since you then have to wonder if the horse is the same horse now. One thing to always do is to check the last line since it is the best indication of the horses' form but not always the line to use. Even a horse that was outclassed or on the wrong surface in that race should show something in the race such as early speed, beat half the field etc. To sum up as the others here have stated you must decide which method of paceline selection you are most comfortable with and works for you.
Tim G
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:33 AM   #8
mick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebs View Post
Knowing when to take a drive to "El Paso" as Bill sometimes will say can save you from making bad decisions.


Hi, Jeebs. Good to see you posting again. Bill's quote reminds me of a favorite quip. One horseplayer says to another as they walk into the OTB, "Gosh, I hope I break even today. I need the money."
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:18 PM   #9
Mitch44
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For pace lines I also use the preceptor ,the best of the last 3 at a comparable surface and distance. Where ever that takes me is where I go regardless of how far back that takes me. You have to treat all the horses equal so if that means going back to get the correct surface or distance than is where I travel to. As an ex. I have absolutely no aversion to using line 10 if it the correct one. You do find this more with turf horses because in the north because turf is seasonal. But you can also find it with poor trainers who don't place a horse at a proper distance.

With distance I attempt to stay within 1/2 F and no more than 1 F. Races generally shorter run faster and longer races generally run slower. EVEN WITHIN THE SPRINT AND ROUTE STRUCTURE!!! I.E. if you use a 1 1/16 line in a 1 1/4 race it'll make that horse too fast and distort readouts. Ditto with a 5.5 F for a 7F race. Now you have to use what you have, and if that's the case such as in these examples remember to downgrade the horse in your readouts. If the horse had significant more total energy and doesn't decelerate too fast than I don't downgrade it.

I never use muddy or sloppy lines even when today's track is off. I've found that theory to be overblown. With fast lines on off tracks the best horse still wins. There is no edge there at least for me.

I also don't consider class in picking pace line. If you do you'll never catch an improving horse stepping up in class. And they pay better prices also.

I don't use the X and O's at all. With the preceptor ratings I can see if the horse's form is improving or declining for the last race and all its races.

I don't use the Fulcrum at all and consider it a waste of valuable time as I do the X and 0's also a waste of time. For me once you pick pace lines for your contenders the fulcrum is within that, along with the match-up of the horses. Of course the caveat here is if you have the correct contenders and correct pace lines. For me that's not a problem.

Finally let me reiterate that's how I do it. There are those who have great success with the fulcrum and x and o's along with other techniques. If it works for you than keep doing it and don't change a thing.

All my best,
Mitch44
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:50 PM   #10
Mark
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Winners

There are only two ways to win a horse race: Set the pace or overcome the pace that has been set. To paraphrase Jim Bradshaw " One horse goes for and gets the lead and the others chase him. If they catch him he loses, if they don't he wins". Everything else being equal, the fastest horses will win the race, except when they are compromised by running "too fast too early" or the pace scenario shows multiple Early horses battling for the lead and exhausting themselves. Then slower horse win. Then horses that have demonstrated that they will pass other horses and have made quick moves, POWER MOVES against a pace similar to today's projected pace will win.
These are the kinds of pacelines you should consider when you pick pacelines. While an evenly run race can be an indication of the horse coming to hand when it occurs after horrible races, it is not the paceline to use to evaluate the horse.
Jim Bradshaw's method is to find the fastest early pace that the horse competed against and finished competitively against, it doesn't matter where in the pps that is. With these POWER LINES selected for each horse you can now compare them, MATCH THEM UP. The Hat had 3 questions he needed answered when keeping that deep POWER LINE: 1) Is the horse still a horse(or has he become a Pig, thank you Richie P.)? 2. Has the horse changed his Running Style and become a slow horse? 3. Can that Early horse still get on top of his fractions? If the horse fails these tests and you have a deep POWER LINE, throw him out!!!!
His mantra was always,"Bet the horse closest to the leader positionally (at the first call), factoring in the pace of the race". If you look at a race and figure it is going to be won by EARLY, then you only want to consider pacelines where the horse ran within 1 length at the 1st call. If you believe the race will be won OTE, then you focus on the fastest early Presser, a horse within 2 or 3 lengths at the 1st Call. If there are none of those that have demonstrated they can be successful against today's projected pace, then you look further back at the SPs and find the horse that will pass multiple horses 1c-2c or 2c-sc against today's projected pace. Ignore gains from the stretch call to the finish as they result from the interaction of the horses in the early part of the race.
Folks, this is not easy to learn. I am in my 5th year of exclusively using the Match Up. I'm just now understanding what he and through Richie P were teaching. Final Time is the result of the dynamics of the horse race and focusing on it will lead you to the attempt to make the perfect adjustment. That just doesn't exist. Final Time variants applied to the 1st fraction will lead you in the opposite direction. Think about it a fast final time is often the product of slow early fractions which produces a negative adjustment, in the attempt to slow the final time down. If you apply some of that to the 1st call you are slowing that down even further, which makes no sense. A slow final time will often be the result of fast early fractions. This will produce a final time adjustment that attempts to bring that up to par so applying that to the 1st fraction will only make them faster. That's crazy!!!
The 1st fraction is most effected by the actual speed of the horses and least effected by the track surface speed(Run-up distance excluded). Since we are looking for horses that can get the lead and set the pace, isn't that where we want to start the investigation. in the process if we can find evidence of other horses that will press the leader and force him to go "too fast too early", then we can variegate the race OTE and throw out the Earlies.
The only way to do this is to work with RAW data that is not ruined by the applications of Final time variant.
Hope that helps.
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