Record Keeping Idea's - Pace and Cap

pktruckdriver · 07-09-2009, 09:10 PM

It is said that we must do 20 race cycle's and 100 race cycle's too.

Now it is known to me , hopefully I got this right, that we do our selections and pace line picks and go thru the process of elimination getting it down to 2-4 horses, mostly 3 horses, and then betting on the best 2 value horses, am I correct here.

Also it seems that , we are down to 4 horses and horses 3 and 4 are almost indentical in most ways, except the odds, one is 4-1 the other 20-1 and horse# 1 is 7/5 and horse# 2 is 5-1, so with this scenario isn't one suppose to wager on horses 2 and 3, and just to cover ourself maybe a 2.00 win on the 20-1, #4 horse? Or is this a personal preference?

Okay now the purpose of this post Record Keeping, the importance of it in RDSS/Sartin Methodology , as without it you're not doing things right, taking notes and keeping records is all part of the learning process, no?

Me , I wish to do what is required, BUT, I am not big on record keeping , for my acct. in the truck business I am in, he's what I do, I stuff envelopes full of reciepts and send them off when full, that's it. Okay I do keep track of when I cross state lines and then there is my logbook, which is a record of all 24hrs in the day, and it states whether I was sleeping, eating , driving or off duty, anything I do is recodered in that document, even on off days, I make one out too, but when we get to horses and such I just do not or have not yet done so, the excuse I use , too much time and then what is the purpose, well let me say I know the purpose part now and understand I need to, but still the time issue is a major issue and then the actual WAY OF DOING IT, on my computer or on paper, or what, I barely know how to read and write, but I can , recordkeeping is tedious and needs to be meticolus/perfect, I need help.

Are there suggestions from those out there on how best to keep the records that we need to keep and found an easier way to so, maybe even a fun way to do it, as I see horse racing handicapping as fun, enjoy the time spent doing it, but not keeping records, NOT YET, I NEED TO THOU, so any suggestions please???

We need to document :

1. 2-3 selections/contenders with the odds, either m/l or post time??

2. the 2 we bet on , due to odds, betting the best 2 for value

3. document passed races with notations as to why it was passed

4. Notes on why one pace line over the other, or why no selction was made

5. Also the winners of the race with payouts for 1st place only

6. any notations of patterns you start seeing or anything helpful to you.

These are just a few of the things we need to take down as records am I right here, or am I still missing many more things to record also?

I was told once that Xcell something would do this for you easily enough, but I do not know how to use xcell, so if anyone culd assisit me with overcoming this little anthill in my way, I would appreciaite any comments, ...

Thank you

Patrick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyYZUhSeRYc

Bill V. · 07-09-2009, 09:42 PM

Hello Patrick

I know what you mean I have to keep records with my small
messenger service business I too just store everything up and send it to the accountant

The best thing to do is keep what you do as for as 20 race cycles consistant
within the cycle

You can do any of the methods you listed

The guidelines from the follow ups in the # 70 - 88 timeframe
are to bet any horse in your top 2 that will pay over a minium
which you feel is accetable. Here the guidelines are 5/2 or higher
for your first bet
For your second bet you are to bet the best value horse of your two
remaining horses in your top 3

You really can do anything that best suits your taste

I find for me the best thing is to keep my 20 race cycles as basic and simple
as I can there fore I don't get lazy and start getting into that
"I"ll fill it in later mode"
I just start a simple notepad
since I do all my work with RDss Its easy just to open up a notepad
and list my bets as I make them

Like this ..

Race one Bet tier 1 -3 Won winner tier 1 $7.00 no problem
Race two Bet tier 1- 2 Loss winner not in top 5
Race three Bet tier 2 -3 Won winner tier 3 $27.00 Yes !!!!
Race Four Bet tier 1 -3 Miss winner tier 2 $4.80 No prob favorite won
Race Five Bet tier 2 -3 Won winner tier 2 $9.60 solid !!

I just record which tier I bet, how much the winner pays and what I feel
as soon as the race results are known

Bill

For The Lead · 07-09-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pktruckdriver

It is said that we must do 20 race cycle's and 100 race cycle's too.

Now it is known to me , hopefully I got this right, that we do our selections and pace line picks and go thru the process of elimination getting it down to 2-4 horses, mostly 3 horses, and then betting on the best 2 value horses, am I correct here.

Also it seems that , we are down to 4 horses and horses 3 and 4 are almost indentical in most ways, except the odds, one is 4-1 the other 20-1 and horse# 1 is 7/5 and horse# 2 is 5-1, so with this scenario isn't one suppose to wager on horses 2 and 3, and just to cover ourself maybe a 2.00 win on the 20-1, #4 horse? Or is this a personal preference?

Okay now the purpose of this post Record Keeping, the importance of it in RDSS/Sartin Methodology , as without it you're not doing things right, taking notes and keeping records is all part of the learning process, no?

Me , I wish to do what is required, BUT, I am not big on record keeping , for my acct. in the truck business I am in, he's what I do, I stuff envelopes full of reciepts and send them off when full, that's it. Okay I do keep track of when I cross state lines and then there is my logbook, which is a record of all 24hrs in the day, and it states whether I was sleeping, eating , driving or off duty, anything I do is recodered in that document, even on off days, I make one out too, but when we get to horses and such I just do not or have not yet done so, the excuse I use , too much time and then what is the purpose, well let me say I know the purpose part now and understand I need to, but still the time issue is a major issue and then the actual WAY OF DOING IT, on my computer or on paper, or what, I barely know how to read and write, but I can , recordkeeping is tedious and needs to be meticolus/perfect, I need help.

Are there suggestions from those out there on how best to keep the records that we need to keep and found an easier way to so, maybe even a fun way to do it, as I see horse racing handicapping as fun, enjoy the time spent doing it, but not keeping records, NOT YET, I NEED TO THOU, so any suggestions please???

We need to document :

1. 2-3 selections/contenders with the odds, either m/l or post time??

2. the 2 we bet on , due to odds, betting the best 2 for value

3. document passed races with notations as to why it was passed

4. Notes on why one pace line over the other, or why no selction was made

5. Also the winners of the race with payouts for 1st place only

6. any notations of patterns you start seeing or anything helpful to you.

These are just a few of the things we need to take down as records am I right here, or am I still missing many more things to record also?

I was told once that Xcell something would do this for you easily enough, but I do not know how to use xcell, so if anyone culd assisit me with overcoming this little anthill in my way, I would appreciaite any comments, ...

Thank you

Patrick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyYZUhSeRYc

Hey Patrick,
There is always the old fashion way. Before you walk into the track, count your money. (write it down if you can't remember)
When you come out, count your money. If you have more than when you went in, you did good!

If you have less, time to hit the books again.

Seriously, keep the records!
Good Luck!

pktruckdriver · 07-09-2009, 09:51 PM

Hey bill you make it sound so simple , and maybe you're right ,it is that simple, thanks for making me wake-up and realize it, 20 races is just 2 cards, no, or is it 20 races that you bet, not races you passed, could be 3-6 cards, well that's still okay too, but.. the tier thing I am lost, I see it all-over the board, did I sleep thru that class. Is tier the red/green/yellow thingy, or if not then I may need a little help again, please.

And to think I may have needed the BKT or BA supreme, whew, glad that was averterd, thanks again Bill

Patrick

SilentRun · 07-10-2009, 09:46 AM

Hello,

If I may put my 2 cents in:

1. In a 20 cycle race you should record the race(s) that you passed.
You can consider passed races as not losing money. You should pass
if you can't find value (muliple low odds contenders) or a very strong
favorite that you feel will win. Or, you simply have trouble making a
decision ...UNCERTAINEY. This all gets clearer over time with experience.

2. Re: Tiers This is BL/BL (Betting line / Bottom Line). Click on this caption
in your analysis screen.
It is the top down (Tier1, Tier2...) betting guide for your contenders.
You can also use V/DC (Velocity in relation to Decleration). Ted posted
a very clear explanation a few days ago.

A solid recommendation was given to read past Follow-Ups. I recommend
that you enhance your learning/understanding before risking any money.
Practice 20 cycle races, betting 2 horses to win only, until you show a profit.

Ernie

Tim Y · 07-10-2009, 03:34 PM

The great thing about the programs is ADAPTABILITY.

Record about 10 15 factors for about two weeks at each track and review what worked there. Very few tracks have exactly the same footprint.

On the PLAYABLE races, make wagering decisions. One of the BIGGEST mistakes is lying to yourself that the program led you to the winner in review, but unless you CHOSE that inkling over the other possibilities you "recollection" of what happened is tainted.

Intrepid · 07-10-2009, 04:00 PM

[QUOTE=For The Lead;56829]Hey Patrick,
There is always the old fashion way. Before you walk into the track, count your money. (write it down if you can't remember)
When you come out, count your money. If you have more than when you went in, you did good!

If you have less, time to hit the books again.

Seriously, keep the records!
Good Luck![/QUOTE

I use a version of FTL's record keeping system.

I keep three separate bank rolls

One for Win bets
One for Exacta bets
One for Trifecta bets

I write down how many bets I've made and how much I've wagered from each bankroll. Then I add up how much I've collected from my wagers in each separate bankroll. The difference is my ROI and hit rate.(win percentage)

pktruckdriver · 07-10-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Y

The great thing about the programs is ADAPTABILITY.

Record about 10 15 factors for about two weeks at each track and review what worked there. Very few tracks have exactly the same footprint.

On the PLAYABLE races, make wagering decisions. One of the BIGGEST mistakes is lying to yourself that the program led you to the winner in review, but unless you CHOSE that inkling over the other possibilities you "recollection" of what happened is tainted.

Tim I enjoy your responses to me so far, great suff, but this post has me lost, could I ask you to elaborate please?

Thank you
Patrick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyYZUhSeRYc

Tim Y · 07-11-2009, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pktruckdriver

Tim I enjoy your responses to me so far, great stuff, but this post has me lost, could I ask you to elaborate please?

EACH track requires a specialized "foot print" based upon THOSE factors whicj show a consistent predictive value.

On that second note, OFTEN people who do not make some sort of wagering decision each race from the data the program delivers will often lie to themselves about the strength of the program, when it is the user that directs the wagers once the program sorts things out. That second half of the equation is the harder one. PRACTICE intrerpreting the readout through real wagering choices.

mikesal57 · 07-11-2009, 07:27 AM

Pat..

what Tim is trying to say , is to keep track on what factor is winning at a particular track.....take a look at this screen shot...the winner #6 has the best LPR (late pace rating) . The next race maybe the winner had the best EPR ( early pace rating) , the following might be TT (turn time ) and so on..keep a list for a few days and then something might show up and help u determine how the track playing...

keep records on distances , surfaces , maybe one factor does extremely well that no one sees and gives you the advantage...yes it will be time consuming but the work might be worth it!!

mike

07-09-2009, 09:10 PM	#1
pktruckdriver Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saratoga Springs Posts: 1,547	Record Keeping Idea's It is said that we must do 20 race cycle's and 100 race cycle's too. Now it is known to me , hopefully I got this right, that we do our selections and pace line picks and go thru the process of elimination getting it down to 2-4 horses, mostly 3 horses, and then betting on the best 2 value horses, am I correct here. Also it seems that , we are down to 4 horses and horses 3 and 4 are almost indentical in most ways, except the odds, one is 4-1 the other 20-1 and horse# 1 is 7/5 and horse# 2 is 5-1, so with this scenario isn't one suppose to wager on horses 2 and 3, and just to cover ourself maybe a 2.00 win on the 20-1, #4 horse? Or is this a personal preference? Okay now the purpose of this post Record Keeping, the importance of it in RDSS/Sartin Methodology , as without it you're not doing things right, taking notes and keeping records is all part of the learning process, no? Me , I wish to do what is required, BUT, I am not big on record keeping , for my acct. in the truck business I am in, he's what I do, I stuff envelopes full of reciepts and send them off when full, that's it. Okay I do keep track of when I cross state lines and then there is my logbook, which is a record of all 24hrs in the day, and it states whether I was sleeping, eating , driving or off duty, anything I do is recodered in that document, even on off days, I make one out too, but when we get to horses and such I just do not or have not yet done so, the excuse I use , too much time and then what is the purpose, well let me say I know the purpose part now and understand I need to, but still the time issue is a major issue and then the actual WAY OF DOING IT, on my computer or on paper, or what, I barely know how to read and write, but I can , recordkeeping is tedious and needs to be meticolus/perfect, I need help. Are there suggestions from those out there on how best to keep the records that we need to keep and found an easier way to so, maybe even a fun way to do it, as I see horse racing handicapping as fun, enjoy the time spent doing it, but not keeping records, NOT YET, I NEED TO THOU, so any suggestions please??? We need to document : 1. 2-3 selections/contenders with the odds, either m/l or post time?? 2. the 2 we bet on , due to odds, betting the best 2 for value 3. document passed races with notations as to why it was passed 4. Notes on why one pace line over the other, or why no selction was made 5. Also the winners of the race with payouts for 1st place only 6. any notations of patterns you start seeing or anything helpful to you. These are just a few of the things we need to take down as records am I right here, or am I still missing many more things to record also? I was told once that Xcell something would do this for you easily enough, but I do not know how to use xcell, so if anyone culd assisit me with overcoming this little anthill in my way, I would appreciaite any comments, ... Thank you Patrick http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyYZUhSeRYc Last edited by pktruckdriver; 07-09-2009 at 09:20 PM.

07-09-2009, 09:42 PM	#2
Bill V. The egg man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Carlsbad, California Posts: 10,005	Pat Hello Patrick I know what you mean I have to keep records with my small messenger service business I too just store everything up and send it to the accountant The best thing to do is keep what you do as for as 20 race cycles consistant within the cycle You can do any of the methods you listed The guidelines from the follow ups in the # 70 - 88 timeframe are to bet any horse in your top 2 that will pay over a minium which you feel is accetable. Here the guidelines are 5/2 or higher for your first bet For your second bet you are to bet the best value horse of your two remaining horses in your top 3 You really can do anything that best suits your taste I find for me the best thing is to keep my 20 race cycles as basic and simple as I can there fore I don't get lazy and start getting into that "I"ll fill it in later mode" I just start a simple notepad since I do all my work with RDss Its easy just to open up a notepad and list my bets as I make them Like this .. Race one Bet tier 1 -3 Won winner tier 1 $7.00 no problem Race two Bet tier 1- 2 Loss winner not in top 5 Race three Bet tier 2 -3 Won winner tier 3 $27.00 Yes !!!! Race Four Bet tier 1 -3 Miss winner tier 2 $4.80 No prob favorite won Race Five Bet tier 2 -3 Won winner tier 2 $9.60 solid !! I just record which tier I bet, how much the winner pays and what I feel as soon as the race results are known Bill

07-11-2009, 07:27 AM	#10
mikesal57 Grade 1 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 3,952	Pat.. what Tim is trying to say , is to keep track on what factor is winning at a particular track.....take a look at this screen shot...the winner #6 has the best LPR (late pace rating) . The next race maybe the winner had the best EPR ( early pace rating) , the following might be TT (turn time ) and so on..keep a list for a few days and then something might show up and help u determine how the track playing... keep records on distances , surfaces , maybe one factor does extremely well that no one sees and gives you the advantage...yes it will be time consuming but the work might be worth it!! mike Attached Images __________________ Never bet a favorite doing something for the first time-Harvey Pack Last edited by mikesal57; 07-11-2009 at 07:32 AM.

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07-09-2009, 09:51 PM	#4
pktruckdriver Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saratoga Springs Posts: 1,547	Hey bill you make it sound so simple , and maybe you're right ,it is that simple, thanks for making me wake-up and realize it, 20 races is just 2 cards, no, or is it 20 races that you bet, not races you passed, could be 3-6 cards, well that's still okay too, but.. the tier thing I am lost, I see it all-over the board, did I sleep thru that class. Is tier the red/green/yellow thingy, or if not then I may need a little help again, please. And to think I may have needed the BKT or BA supreme, whew, glad that was averterd, thanks again Bill Patrick

07-10-2009, 09:46 AM	#5
SilentRun Grade 1 Aspiree Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 678	Hello, If I may put my 2 cents in: 1. In a 20 cycle race you should record the race(s) that you passed. You can consider passed races as not losing money. You should pass if you can't find value (muliple low odds contenders) or a very strong favorite that you feel will win. Or, you simply have trouble making a decision ...UNCERTAINEY. This all gets clearer over time with experience. 2. Re: Tiers This is BL/BL (Betting line / Bottom Line). Click on this caption in your analysis screen. It is the top down (Tier1, Tier2...) betting guide for your contenders. You can also use V/DC (Velocity in relation to Decleration). Ted posted a very clear explanation a few days ago. A solid recommendation was given to read past Follow-Ups. I recommend that you enhance your learning/understanding before risking any money. Practice 20 cycle races, betting 2 horses to win only, until you show a profit. Ernie

07-10-2009, 03:34 PM	#6
Tim Y turf historian Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,455	The great thing about the programs is ADAPTABILITY. Record about 10 15 factors for about two weeks at each track and review what worked there. Very few tracks have exactly the same footprint. On the PLAYABLE races, make wagering decisions. One of the BIGGEST mistakes is lying to yourself that the program led you to the winner in review, but unless you CHOSE that inkling over the other possibilities you "recollection" of what happened is tainted. __________________ Albert Einstein:"The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind." Last edited by Tim Y; 07-10-2009 at 03:37 PM.

07-10-2009, 04:00 PM	#7
Intrepid AlwNW1X Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 14	[QUOTE=For The Lead;56829]Hey Patrick, There is always the old fashion way. Before you walk into the track, count your money. (write it down if you can't remember) When you come out, count your money. If you have more than when you went in, you did good! If you have less, time to hit the books again. Seriously, keep the records! Good Luck![/QUOTE I use a version of FTL's record keeping system. I keep three separate bank rolls One for Win bets One for Exacta bets One for Trifecta bets I write down how many bets I've made and how much I've wagered from each bankroll. Then I add up how much I've collected from my wagers in each separate bankroll. The difference is my ROI and hit rate.(win percentage)