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2008 Breeders' Cup 2008

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Old 10-28-2008, 04:35 PM   #21
Tim Y
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The ignorance of the North American handicapper is hard to fathom, when, as in many other areas of their lives, they are clueless to what is happening in the rest of the world. I wrote an article in the 90's called Courses for Horses (appeared in THE BACKSTRETCH) and was really amazed at the feedback I got.

There is a huge thoroughbred world out there which functions independently of what goes on domestically.It would help for folks to have broader horizons in all aspects of how we share this earth.

Last edited by Tim Y; 10-28-2008 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:43 PM   #22
Tim Y
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There is a much more definite "pecking order" in European group races than our graded ones. Horses in Ireland, England and France are far and away the best there with Italian and German group ones realistically are on par with group two's in the former group.

For example,any winner of the St.James Palace Stakes, Queen E II Stakes, the Prix de Moulin de Longchamp, or the Sussex at Goodwood are usually far and away the best milers over there. There are about 4 major sprints as well. The longer races are usually two tiered between older and those limited to three year olds.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:16 PM   #23
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Look for Euors on turf and poly, but forget them on dirt.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:16 AM   #24
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Jms,Houndog

Thank you for the feedback! Honest to goodness you guys came at it from 2 directions completely foreign to me! Wow!

I need to make sure I can find this thread next year

Thank you
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:54 PM   #25
Tim Y
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Originally Posted by tom View Post
Look for Euors on turf and poly, but forget them on dirt.
They have now seveal courses that run in Winter and Spring made up of some of the same materials that we have here. THEY have noted a certain percentage of their runners perform better over it and even have a Breeder's Cup prep day at HAYDOCK and Great Leighs.


You have to have a GLOBAL perspective not just the narrow North American take on EVERYTHING in order to stay current.


From the Ascot website: "Tonight, at Great Leigh's biggest All-Weather meeting to date, an eight-race card boasts quality "prep" races for the forthcoming Breeders' Cup in California and Frognal in the Thoroughbred Open Juvenile looks one of several handy rides for champion-elect Ryan Moore."
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Old 10-29-2008, 02:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by RichieP View Post
Jms,Houndog

Thank you for the feedback! Honest to goodness you guys came at it from 2 directions completely foreign to me! Wow!

I need to make sure I can find this thread next year

Thank you
I knew the Euro's both turf and poly would have a big impact. I adjusted my wagering accordingly. My handle for Win bets and Vertical Exotics was much less than in prior years. I focused on P3's and P4's and went much deeper than usual. It really worked out very well as I had my best cup day yet. I had all the Euro winners included except 1... And you can guess which one when I told you it killed 2 live P3's and a 2 P4's to 5 horses and 3 P4's to another single whose name rhymes with hurlin which I felt like doing when I knew no US horse had enough left to be any kind of challange about 200 yds from home.
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:22 PM   #27
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You have to have a GLOBAL perspective not just the narrow North American take on EVERYTHING in order to stay current.


No, actually you don't. You have to "know thy track" as Doc said.
I only need know the track bet at. I know Euros do well on turf and poly, and the lines can be interchanged, whereas on dirt, you cannot do this as successfully. The BC was a goldmine if you threw out all dirt lines period. You were hardly hurt at all, and you caught the price horses. When the Euros run on our dirt tracks, they do not perform nearly as well, with only a handful of exceptions over the years. Both the first two finishers in the Classic had better numbers than Curlin, and Tiago was almost as good as Curlin this year.

The class edges are so great you do not need ( nor can you do!) pace ratings, and just a rudimentary acknowledgment of the descriptions of how the Euros ran - early, closers, etc. Howard always said if you don't have all the information you want, use the information you have. With the Euros, you have only so much available - better get used to it until they provide us the fractions we need to run our programs. In the meantime, I think we will see a proliferation of Euros coming over all year now, now that we have been exposed LOL!, and with more and more synthetic surfaces, there will be golden opportunities for good scores. Turf of poly from Europe are going to be winning a lot of races here. I only wish we could get third fraction times *sigh* for the shippers. Being ahead of the crowd is going to pay off.

The Racing Post converted figs CJ gave out on his site were awesome. Betting them blindly was profitable. The marathon winner - $29 - was a top fig horse...the Classic exacta, even the turf races. Yes, this thread is already on my reminder program for next October!

Last edited by tom; 10-29-2008 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:36 PM   #28
Tim Y
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[QUOTE=tom;42431]No, actually you don't. You have to "know thy track" as Doc said.
I only need know the track bet at. I know Euros do well on turf and poly, and the lines can be interchanged, whereas on dirt, you cannot do this as successfully."

Sort of encapsulates your WHOLE philosophy of life: LOOKING BACKWARDS when it is change that really makes things what they are....The Europeans have made major strides in training for dirt and their breeding program continues to have stamina...a lost aspect on this side of the pond, but stand still,don't re-evaluate and stay stuck in a single mode, that's par for the course with the majority of handicappers.

Last edited by Tim Y; 10-29-2008 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 10-29-2008, 04:13 PM   #29
Tim Y
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philosophy of life meaning CONSERVATIVE
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Old 10-30-2008, 09:01 AM   #30
jms62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom View Post
No, actually you don't. You have to "know thy track" as Doc said.
I only need know the track bet at. I know Euros do well on turf and poly, and the lines can be interchanged, whereas on dirt, you cannot do this as successfully. The BC was a goldmine if you threw out all dirt lines period. You were hardly hurt at all, and you caught the price horses. When the Euros run on our dirt tracks, they do not perform nearly as well, with only a handful of exceptions over the years. Both the first two finishers in the Classic had better numbers than Curlin, and Tiago was almost as good as Curlin this year.

The class edges are so great you do not need ( nor can you do!) pace ratings, and just a rudimentary acknowledgment of the descriptions of how the Euros ran - early, closers, etc. Howard always said if you don't have all the information you want, use the information you have. With the Euros, you have only so much available - better get used to it until they provide us the fractions we need to run our programs. In the meantime, I think we will see a proliferation of Euros coming over all year now, now that we have been exposed LOL!, and with more and more synthetic surfaces, there will be golden opportunities for good scores. Turf of poly from Europe are going to be winning a lot of races here. I only wish we could get third fraction times *sigh* for the shippers. Being ahead of the crowd is going to pay off.

The Racing Post converted figs CJ gave out on his site were awesome. Betting them blindly was profitable. The marathon winner - $29 - was a top fig horse...the Classic exacta, even the turf races. Yes, this thread is already on my reminder program for next October!
just a rudimentary acknowledgment of the descriptions of how the Euros ran - early, closers, etc.

I could not agree more. I closely read the race notes of each euro horse and chose those in good form that closed and I felt could make the distance... It's not pace handicapping but it is adaptability to what was presented. The Pools are too huge to ignore.
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