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Sartin Methodology Handicapping 101 (102 ...) Interactive Teaching & Learning - Race Conditions, Contenders, Pacelines, Advanced Concepts, Betting ... |
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01-07-2017, 11:43 AM | #1 |
Grade 1
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,151
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X and O
Bill,
Can you do a refresher on this? Jeff |
01-07-2017, 12:53 PM | #2 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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Form Cycle + 0 (+)
Sure thing Jeff
Here you go First off the drill is to mark the good races with a + The bad races with a 0 and races were the hore was involved competitively against the POR but finished poorly , these guys get a (+) or Plus within an O Here is an example from today's AQU card ( which has been canceled ) I have marked the lines, my markings are just to the right of the finish positions . RDSS does a nice job for us by marking the Plus races with colors and bold face , but its always a exercise to do on your own, I also use the phase 1 readouts when looking at + 0 and (+) |
01-07-2017, 06:09 PM | #3 |
Grade 1
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,151
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Bill
Well you taught me something never realized that those colors represented the + races in RDSS I was listening to the pace line tapes and Purdy was talking about using them, he also mentioned how he looked at the horses PP'S from the bottom up. Another handicapper who does it for a living told me he does it as well You said you use the phase 1 readouts with them can you explain in more detail Jeff Hope for the best for you, Dad and the rest of the family Last edited by shoeless; 01-07-2017 at 06:12 PM. |
02-17-2017, 03:50 PM | #4 |
Abiding Student
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 711
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Bill V., thank you for another helpful post. And thank you, Jeff, for the request.
mick |
02-18-2017, 02:36 PM | #5 |
turf historian
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,455
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JUST recognizing horses FINAL POSITION misses COMPLETELY, all those attempts at early pace improvement, the CLASSIC indicator or improving form (Often run against much faster paces of race and POSTIONALLY are hidden to casual analysis).
Horses IMPROVE intermittently NOT over a single race. If you miss out on improving contention on faster paces of race, you will lose out on MANY longer prices that the "head in the sands" PUBLIC loses ONLY looking at the END of a contest when it is IMPROVING EARLY SPEED is the hallmark of improving form. FIND them BEFORE the crowd does FORGET position and look at HOW the horse contended with the fractions.
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Albert Einstein:"The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind." Last edited by Tim Y; 02-18-2017 at 02:43 PM. |
02-18-2017, 03:59 PM | #6 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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once again
Once again you bring nothing to the table, You just pop in to any thread and keep repeating very superficially about early pace.
if you really had a legitimate view of the power of the value of doing your notations, and had read what is written in the follow up, you would know that position and pace of race are both used to determine if pace lines are plus plus within a zero or zero, Please If you have opinions on things Try to either start your own thread put please don't just highjack every thread with this same talk over and over about early POR Show us something Bill |
02-18-2017, 05:33 PM | #7 |
turf historian
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,455
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EARLY is where hits game is AT, always has been, always will be on DIRT or tracks other than the Fair Grounds or Assiniboia.
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Albert Einstein:"The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind." |
02-18-2017, 08:49 PM | #8 |
The egg man
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Carlsbad, California
Posts: 10,005
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More on
There is a helpful article on making good use of doing your notations,
Follow up# 56 page 21. From The Top.with Doc Sartin Bill |
02-19-2017, 12:41 AM | #9 |
turf historian
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,455
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years back a GREAT long shot article was in the Follow UP.
Simply stated, one can completely MISS an improving horse by over reliance on BEATEN LENGTHS. Don't LOOK at beaten lenghts... LOOK AT PACE OF RACE. Many an improving horse may have stayed 7th through most of a very fast pace and SEGMENTAL VELOCITY WISE is right there to compare with many in today's FIELD. This article suggested just using that very fast pace of race and EVENLY give the horse studied 6 beaten lengths at each call. It uncovers a lot of improvement HIDDEN behind over reliance on beaten lengths. What colt do you think came INTO his Derby off the fastest paced race of the entire group???? Mine that Bird. What colt came into this past Summer's Queen's Plate off the fastest first fraction in the field? none other than the winner Dudley Diggs.
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Albert Einstein:"The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind." |
02-19-2017, 12:51 AM | #10 |
turf historian
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,455
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EARLY pace is BASIC to the ENTIRE Sartin Methodology. It is either PRIMARY to each read out or is such an intimate part of things like FX, % median, E/EPR, TPP, the e/l balance, True Speed..on and on.
Since is is INHERENT to itself, it and stands as an alone evaluation., it reflects what it inherently part and parcel of each horse. Later moves in a race are dependent OFTEN on a pace of race said horse had NOTHING TO DO WITH. That is one reason why early is more predictive and more likely to come up again. ANYTIME there is a chance for a horse to easily or potentially get an easy lead (fastest F1 F2 against faster paced races), You have to consider it a shot to win. Even if a theoretical speed duel is suggested (Eternal Prince failed to break sharply in Spend A Buck's Derby so he got an easy lead). you are usually looking a odds in the midrange. EARLY is where its at. EVERY horse in the race needs to be matched to the best earlies. They are pace setters, the pace prompters, the ONES actually making the race go and NOT the passive observers that hold back and try to make a single mover through unknown traffic.
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Albert Einstein:"The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind." |
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