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Old 02-17-2009, 05:38 PM   #1
Tim Y
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Slow early pace

When Pyro made a VISUALLY impressive move in his crawling paced Louisiana Derby, I was very surprised to hear what a great colt this one was. The pace was 24, 48, 1:13 4/5 and of course he LOOKED to be flying by the field. Even Andy Beyer bought into the hoopola and ordained him a Great one.

IF this great move was intrinsic to the quality of the colt. then MOST assuredly the closer prone surface of Keeneland would be to his liking and catapult this one to favoritism in the Run for the Roses. A pace in the Blue Grass was 24.4, 49, 1:13 should have set him up if this was his thing but NO where could he be found.and this one was exposed as having closed in a weak pace and a weak field.

To better understand how a slow early pace makes a horse look FAR better than he truly is, try an experiment. Get two friends (one who is very fit and preferably a youngster) a stop watch and find yourself a high school track. Run two heats of two laps each resting for 30 minutes between them so there will be little effect of one over the other. In EACH heat, have your other friend TIME you for the last half lap going as FAST as you can run.

In the first heat, jog at an even pace before going all out that last half lap. REST. and then the second time, have your young fit friend force you to go much faster earlier for a lap (twice or three times the pace you ran in the first heat). Then, again, time the last half lap going as fast as you can run.

Second times are slower aren't they. When you jog along completely within yourself there is much more energy in the tank late than when you are forced to go fast earlier. SAME thing here. Get a cushy first half and then your closing move, which might LOOK impressive, TIME WISE is not as you were given the first half of the contest in almost noncompetitive time.

The major class closers of our time Aldebaran, Lit de Justice and others went up against very quick early paces and STILL came home quickly as do many turf horses.

Because a horse simply closes does not mean it is a qulaity horse. It has to have OVERCOME a significant early pace before that late move has any credibility
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:44 PM   #2
clore1030
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Now this was a horse who could close against almost anything:

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/T...98/forego.html
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Old 02-17-2009, 05:55 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by clore1030 View Post
Now this was a horse who could close against almost anything:

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/T...98/forego.html
The more I study this one, the MORE impressed I get. In one four week period in 1976 he ran and won at 7f (1:22 under 126 lbs), Met Mile (1:34.4/5 under 130), Nassau County (1:48 3/5 under 132)

in 75 he went the other way, starting out a 9f at Hialeah, then 10f in the Widener before coming back in a month to win the Carter Hdp under 134 in 1:21 3/5.

ONE OF A KIND. If he had been a earlier developed horse (gelding usually are NOT) he would have given Secretariat a go as he ran on the under card of Red's Belmont 1:40 4/5 at 8.5, I believe against older as he got in at 111 lbs.

In going through my old collection of totes, I have one purchased on him when he ran 4th to Secretariat in his Derby from pp 9 but as entry 10
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:56 PM   #4
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No lie, I would go to the track just because he was running. A few times I went late in the day just to see him. I saw 6 of his 7 NYC appearances in 1976 and he lost only one of them and that was by a nose, conceding 9 pounds to Foolish Pleasure. His trip to Monmouth saw him run third, but the poor guy was carrying 136 that day, conceding 24 to the winner.

Even in his next to last race, beating Dr. Patches, a son of Dr. Fager, and who was no slouch himself at 7F, Forego looked to be age-defying.

Getting a horse today to run in four straight Woodwards would be an accomplishment, let alone win them. And just who would ever accept such weight assignments without threatening to bomb the racing secretary's office? Granted he was a gelding and had no stud duty to retire to, but this was a horse plagued with injuries and it's a testament that Sherril Ward and then Frank Whiteley were able to get him to the gate as often as they did.

After he was retired, there was a fan appreciation day at Belmont, and I was there for that also.

The big guy is the one in my avatar, the most amazing horse I've ever seen live.
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Old 02-23-2009, 08:41 AM   #5
albatross
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Hey guy's

He definitly one of the great's.To my way of thinking it's not how fast they go but more how fast they stop.So a horse that close on a slow pace would have over come a great disadvantage.Verse one close on fast pace.And would think you penalize leader's who lost after a slow pace adv.Meaning the faster they go faster they stop.What am i missing in my thinking.?
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:43 AM   #6
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Forego, the Great!

I, too, am a huge Forego fan, and saw the big gelding on many occasions throughout his career.

Tim, I had a 'saver' win bet in the 1973 Kentucky Derby vs. Secretariat, and made a big, big exacta box with Forego and Big Red. It was early in those New York City OTB years and they were still booking those bets themselves and not co-mingling the pools with the racetracks. I figured Secretariat would win and thought Forego would make for a really juicy exacta. Well, no such luck that day but of course, Forego tipped his hand by running a very solid fourth in Secretariat's record-setting Derby.

Forego was too immature for the first Saturday in May, but had worked a blistering 5 furlongs in 58 seconds a few days before the race, which was the best work of all those horses prepping for the Roses, including the winner. Pete Anderson was his rider then, before Heliodoro Gustines, with Bill Shoemaker coming aboard later, of course.

I wasn't at Belmont Park for the tremendous Secretariat performance, unfortunately, but I did go to the inaugural Marlboro Cup on Sept. 15, 1973. First big money race in New York, $250,000, and that race was expanded to include the likes of Key to the Mint, Onion, Cougar II, after the proposed Super Match Rce between Secretariat and entry mate Riva Ridge fell apart after both lost in August up at Saratoga.

The two Meadow Stable greats ran 1-2 in record time that still stands. Two races prior, I believe, I made my first ever huge bet -- $35,I was still in high school -- to win on Forego, who beat an over-rated and over-bet horse named Cutlass, who was 3-5 or so with Bill Shoemaker up (Shoe would ride Forego when Frank Whiteley trained him).

Forego was 2-1 that day and if memory serves me right, it would be the longest odds he'd go off at the rest of that season and for a very long time. I also believe Forego tied or set a track record as well going 1 1-16 miles that day too.

What made Forego's owner and trainers such great sportsmen (Lazy F Ranch was owned by a woman) was that they regularly accepted high weight assignments (unlike today) and rarely missed a race of importance throughout Forego's career.

The high weight acceptances shouldn't be slouched over too easily because Forego had very serious problems with his ankles and he really was at a risk lugging the 130-plus pounds over 10, 12 furlongs, and often the two miles in the Jockey Club Gold Cup, which he won all the time, it seemed. Well, truthfully, the JCGC gave Forego a break due to it being Weight-for-Age, but it was run at two miles then.

But my personal, real and very special memory and race was the 1976 Marlboro Cup... an accomplished, solid 3 year old, Honest Pleasure, set all the pace in a big field under Craig Perret. Forego was absolutely no where. I really, really, don't remember him getting a 'call', and he was conceding a lot of weight. maybe 14 or 16 pounds to Honest Pleasure... I think Forego was carrying 132 pounds with Shoemaker.

Well, I know you guys know what happened and I still can't believe he got up and won that day, literally right at the wire. For many years my two elderly neighbors, whom I took to the races that day, didn't stop talking about that great day and Forego's race, right up until they both passed away a few years back.

I also heard once that Forego, very old and sore, never really lost that competitive desire. He was retired to John Ward Sr.'s farm (Sherrill Ward trained Forego in the beginning and his nephew, John, would later train Monarchos, for those 'youngsters' reading this), which kissed up to Keeneland Race Track in Lexington. Forego, would hang around on his side of the starting gate and when he'd hear the bell go off, would take off up the backstretch, often outrunning those in the race! Not sure how true that is, but you won't never, ever convince me that it wasn't true .

Thanks again Clore for bringing up a great horse and story so we can talk about and share memories. Once again, I am sorry if I rambled on and on.

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Old 02-23-2009, 11:49 AM   #7
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Smile Forego's pp's

hi again guys...

I am an idiot. I didn't see your link, Clone, to Forego's pp's.

Here I was trying to impress everyone with my memories of Forego and it was all there for everyone to see.

Sorry about that, and could anyone PLEASE tell me how it is that there are those editing lines whenever I post something???
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reckless View Post
hi again guys...

I am an idiot. I didn't see your link, Clone, to Forego's pp's.

Here I was trying to impress everyone with my memories of Forego and it was all there for everyone to see.

Sorry about that, and could anyone PLEASE tell me how it is that there are those editing lines whenever I post something???
Things like that happen to my mother when she attempts to use Microsoft Word. My sister and I are convinced that she must have some extra electricity in her body because using the same PC, these things would never happen to us.

Mom would be typing, and suddenly all of her text would be highlighted - or disappear.

I'm glad to read your remembrances of the horse known locally as "the mighty Forego" and if anyone deserved that adjective, it was he.

I was there for that Marlboro in 1976, and I have to admit to saying at the top of the stretch that he wasn't going to do it this time. I still get a thrill looking at that race on YouTube.
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