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Classic Sartin Programs - your host: Bill Varone Synergism, Energy, Kgen, Entropy, Thoromation, Quad-Rater, PaceLauncher, Synthesis, Validator, Val4, Speculator, etc ...

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Old 11-27-2015, 10:33 AM   #1
Peteman
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Old Program Question

Does anyone know this program,follow up 76, page 69
looks like synthesis with a entropy screen.
this screen in not in my version of synthesis 1A
thanks
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:34 AM   #2
Ted Craven
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This was an early version of Validator (contains the V/DC readout, and its components: the Velocity by segment and the Deceleration by segment). Perhaps ValM (manual entry?)

In the Validator programs with TrackMaster data (and maybe ValM too), Doc dispensed with the detailed breakdowns of the velocity and deceleration components (too much/unnecessary information?) and just displayed the final V/DC ranking. Which persists today in RDSS.

The earlier Entropy and Deceleration programs showed a type of DC/V (deceleration relative to velocity) readout which is why the nomenclature might look familiar. In Validator, he tuned it up with some clever twists and wrote somewhere that he simply 'inverted' the former DC/V labels and now used the label V/DC. Same ideas: velocity relative to deceleration (or vice versa ...).

Hope that helps.

Ted
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Old 11-27-2015, 12:13 PM   #3
Peteman
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Hi Ted
Very cool, thanks for the info,too much information seems what Doc wanted
to avoid,which makes sense,in val he put TDC/rank next to v/dc rank.
and tossed out the those other decelaration readouts.

Just turning over some stones,looking to relate some old ideas(Race segments) to long shots.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:16 AM   #4
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Bumping this having been reading this exact Follow-up. What exactly is EPV/MPV/LPV? I know that these are velocity values, but are they nomenclature for F1/F2/F3 or something totally different, like F1/Second Call/Sustained Pace?

Also, the DCL that Doc speaks of here is 3F/1F, which is different than the 3F/SC used today in the modern program. I would imagine that they both measure the same thing, except that the above is measuring decel from F1 on, while the modern take measures from second call on.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:32 PM   #5
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Hi Ted,
I am going over some of the old manuals. Was The Validator TOT-R, TPV-R, TDC-R, and V/DC-R incorporated in RDSS2?
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Old 12-21-2017, 04:14 PM   #6
Ted Craven
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Smitty, everything in Val2 and Val3 was incorporated into RDSS. VDC-R is the rank of the VDC factor and TOT-R might be Total Energy rank, both of which are foundational to the later Methodology and thus RDSS.

If you can reference the Follow Up Issue and Page, I might be able to comment on those other readouts you mention, or (if I understand them) what they morphed into in later versions of Validator and thus RDSS.

Also - maybe others who worked with those earlier versions of Validator might know more exactly what those represent, though I'm pretty sure they represent a measure of Deceleration at different race segments. The final VDC formula incorporated several of those earlier broken-out measurements into one final composite measure of velocity tempered by deceleration.

I've always thought it wise to defer to Howard in the notion of not confusing people with too many (sometimes redundant) readouts. VDC in its final format incorporates some incremental readouts which formerly got separated out in earlier versions of Validator - sort of a work in progress towards a good single number capturing Velocity relative to Deceleration.

That's what I've got, so far!

Welcome back to the neighbourhood

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Old 12-21-2017, 06:48 PM   #7
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I found it in Issue #77 page 31 -
Thanks Ted for the quick reply and welcome back!
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Old 12-22-2017, 11:47 AM   #8
Ted Craven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty73 View Post
I found it in Issue #77 page 31 -
Thanks Ted for the quick reply and welcome back!
Smitty
From that readout, the TPV column refers to a measurement of Total (Pace?) Velocity and the TDC column refers to Total Deceleration. The numbers underlying these ranks are blended, along with Total Energy (TOT) resulting in Velocity relative to Deceleration (V/DC) - a relative measure (each horse relative to the others) of how little the horse was slowing down ('decelerating') segment by segment relative to how fast ('velocity') it was going. Horses travelling slower (lower velocity) slow down less (lower deceleration), which is why there is usually a strong inverse correlation on the RDSS Velocity screen between Second Call velocity (the default sort) and DCL (simple deceleration from the 2nd call point through the final fraction). So - high ranks in DCL are not necessarily any 'prize' - we want a horse with strong ability (at least measured by velocity) to lead or chase at the 2nd call who can best maintain that rate of travel to the finish line - relative to all the rest!

Deceleration relative to Velocity, or if you stand on your head: Velocity relative to Deceleration

On that early Validator 2001 readout screen, I think the separate Velocity and Deceleration ranks don't stand well on their own - they need to be stated as a blend, including with Total Energy, which is what the final VDC rank shows. Which is why I think Doc later removed those intermediate components and just went with V/DC - the number that really matters (well, along with price/odds).

Doc told me when he was looking at the early RDSS (impishly, I think) that I should just have ONE screen that boiled it all down so people would not be confused. I'm still working on that advice ...

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Old 12-22-2017, 12:16 PM   #9
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That makes sense...I am trying to refresh my memory on The Validator. It worked well for me years ago. I have been out of the game for awhile and trying to regroup.

I am loving the great work you have done with RDSS!

Thanks for the reply...
Smitty
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