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Sartin Methodology Handicapping 101 (102 ...) Interactive Teaching & Learning - Race Conditions, Contenders, Pacelines, Advanced Concepts, Betting ...

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Old 02-19-2017, 08:13 AM   #11
Mitch44
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Anyone can see who is fastest at the 1st or 2nd call, the question remains can it hold up at the finish. If what you say is true than EP,SP & S types would never get up and they do consistently day in and day out and at better prices. Pace handicapping considers the effect of the early pace regardless of who has the lead. Every race and every day there are many horses that have the lead that never finish let alone win. If that's all there was to horse racing than winners wouldn't even pay $2.10 and the game would cease.

Yes "Great spirts" like Sartin, Bradshaw , Brohamer etc. get it and the "mediocre minds" who think early speed is the end all never do. Pace handicappers do like taking their money through and their only contribution to the game is their money donated daily. Hell they can't even deduct the loses on taxes without being a winner.

Bill V. brought up an excellent point in that one should start their own thread rather than disrupt a good thread by going off topic. If one can't contribute to the topic at hand they should remain out. I have never seen anyone destroy more good topics with early speed or how class is unimportant etc. when the subject is about totally different subjects.
TOPIC BLOCKERS due a real disservice to those trying to learn and ruin many before they get their feet wet. As a youngster I had a teacher who said "There is something wrong with someone that changes the subject." For newbies here and old heads choose wisely or be brain washed into false premises by losers looking for company and sympathy.

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Last edited by Mitch44; 02-19-2017 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 02-19-2017, 09:24 AM   #12
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Well said Bill and Mitch. I think some folks think when off the pace horses are talked about winning at a particular track that we are talking about Silky Sullivan types coming from 15 behind when in fact we are not. Check the result charts for the tracks you play. Know where horses can be at the 2nd call and still win. Please remember the race doesn't end at the 2nd call. It is generally true that tactical runners do have an advantage but I think folks tend to think that means on the lead or very close to it when in fact many horse can and do win from 5 or 6 behind at the 2nd call. Bottom line know your track.
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Old 02-19-2017, 10:19 AM   #13
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Cogent understanding of ANY TOPIC (at least for the rational student) encompasses all logical points of observed experience.

NO subject from the content of Cocoa Puffs, to the internal tax codes of Spain are anything BUT multi-factorial.

Parimutuel wagering is a COMPETITIVE game, and one has to look with a different eye to be successful LONG TERM.

Variations on the same subject hardly stand the test of changing the subject.
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:07 AM   #14
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Bill

Getting back to the original topic really good article that you pointed
out in Follow Up 56 on using X's and O's

Thanks
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:15 AM   #15
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We all have differences when it comes to handicapping; my thought is that all the members on this thread have valid points and I learn from all of you.

However, I do agree that we should stick to the point of the creator of the thread.

Tim Y, I enjoy your post very much; since my handicapping leans more toward your philosophy. I value your input very much. However, with that being said we need to respect other member’s teachings.

I consider myself a very good handicapper, but I just do not have that teaching gene, so I really appreciate what all you teaching members bring to the table.

Thanks, Mike
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Old 02-19-2017, 11:52 AM   #16
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There is a time and place for everything. And when I'm at a funeral talking to a parent or wife that just lost their loved one I damn sure am not going to talk to them about cocoa puffs or the tax codes of Spain. A time and place for everything, enough said.

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Old 02-19-2017, 01:01 PM   #17
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Thank you Mitch and Tim and Mike and Jeff
Mitch ,bless you
Peace Bill
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Old 02-19-2017, 01:19 PM   #18
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Bill the Follow Up article you referred to is an excellent one for the newer members to review. In fact anyone who is struggling should review it.
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Old 02-19-2017, 02:25 PM   #19
Bill V.
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Thank You Tim LT1

If you look at all the Sartin programs stating with PL4 with the trackmaster
download capabilities, right up to and most certainly RDSS,
EVERY one highlights a 1, 2 or 3 position.
Every program also shows complete pacelines positions and fractions.
Both components are essential to prober evaluation of pacelines and doing the notations


I have never seen anything that resembles at all what Tim Y is preaching,I any follow Up or Sartin Manual or audio or video.
I feel he is being detrimental, to the group,
Not in what he says , he has good points
But his lazy efforts and repeated soapbox babble
with no Sartin Methodology documented text or graphics
is discouraging and will be addressed

Thanks
Bill
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Old 02-21-2017, 12:23 PM   #20
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I can document those ideas until the cows come home. They work, but required investigation to prove them.

Discussions and debates are about PROVABLE entities, rather than just say they are baloney without ever attempting it is the very definition of the closed mind.

Rational people (the ones who realize that any study progresses) recognize that they don't know it all and try new avenues as they are discovered.

This is a TOOL and there are many ways to use it that NEVER showed up in 1980-1990 periodicals. Why LIMIT your horizons so markedly?
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