Go Back   Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up > RDSS > RDSS Info, Reference
Mark Forums Read
Google Site Search Get RDSS Sartin Library RDSS FAQs Conduct Register Site FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts

RDSS Info, Reference How to obtain RDSS2, get started and learn to use it. (Video and other tutorials)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2022, 10:32 AM   #1
Mitch44
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Villages, Fl.
Posts: 3,705
New Program /workout %

Finally took a day off yesterday from my usual grind. I downloaded the latest updated version of RDSS and specifically with the intent of reviewing the updated % for workouts in the program. And used my version of the Match Up from the program with little regard to the RX screens. Had a good day and made a profit with several winners while playing 3 tracks. Here are a few winners:
Aug 13 5:00:10 PM Complete Gulfstream Park 9 Win $5.00 2,8 $10.00 $44.50 $34.50

Aug 13 5:00:10 PM Complete Gulfstream Park 9 Exacta $2.00 2,8/9 $4.00 $82.20 $78.20

Aug 13 1:45:58 PM Complete Saratoga 2 Win $4.00 3,4 $8.00 $68.80 $60.80
Aug 13 1:45:58 PM Complete Saratoga 2 Exacta $1.00 3,4/3,4 $2.00 $57.25 $55.25

In the 9 GP the #8 had a 97% w/o and the 2nd Sar the #4 had an 85% which told me it's holding its form ($34.40).

Yes, I'm well aware of some of the faults of workouts. What doesn't have a fault? Fact is we must use what we have available and take every advantage. Incorporating workouts into your form analysis instead of instant gratification will improve one's ability.

Here's 2 more:
Aug 13 2:55:01 PM Complete Saratoga 4 Win $5.00 2 $5.00 $14.25 $9.25
Aug 13 2:43:00 PM Complete Gulfstream Park 5 Win $5.00 8 $5.00 $18.50 $13.50
Not such big of a payoff but the principle is the same. The # 2 in the 4th Sar had an 88% workout since last race and then two very slow workouts after. Those who only looked at the last workout or two were fooled by its condition, this is like not looking past the last line in line selection. These works are all computed saving value time and leaving more time to analysis.

RDSS is forever evolving, keep up or get trampled, thanks Ted.

Mitch44
AKA "The Monkey"
Mitch44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 10:50 AM   #2
Bill Lyster
Grade 1
 
Bill Lyster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Escondido CA just 25 minutes from where the turf meets the surf - "...at Del Mar"
Posts: 2,418
Mitch:

I saw Ted's comments about the changes in workout info, but no explanation was given. Can you summarize what changes were made?

I did see a bold line but was not sure why it was placed where it was. Also, based on your post, I was not sure what factors were being used to bolster or weaken your opinion of a particular horse.

Thanks for an explanation.

Bill
Bill Lyster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 12:07 PM   #3
Lt1
Grade 1
 
Lt1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Valley Stream NY
Posts: 9,034
Well done Mitch and thanks for sharing
Tim
__________________
Trust but verify
Lt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 12:15 PM   #4
Mitch44
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Villages, Fl.
Posts: 3,705
The changes that were made is that all the workouts are rated verses just the last couple. This allows for a better analysis of workouts with those of the past. Take notice of improvement.

Sartin's stated that any horse that can work out in 12 second per Furlong is a sound horse or racing sound. Thats about 55 FPS.

The % workout is better because it gives an indication as compared to others that have worked the same distance on the same day and same track condition. Not just against the clock. It's much more valuable when compared against others or a benchmark. I.e. ranked 10th of 20 = 50% and 10th of 90 = 88.88% or 89%.

I find this is a valuable indicator for long layoff horses such as 90 Days, FTS etc., is the horse improving or declining in form? The better horses tend to work better. It's a piece of the puzzle that if analyzed properly can reap big rewards. Of course, the best of all worlds is combining it with other analysis, such as trainer intent, good Pace Rating, deceleration, proper distance and surface etc.

I'll let Ted explain the bold line, but in the future, he has plans where you can toggle and place the workouts between starts for a better visual.

Yesterday I did change a few lines due to very high variants and primarily used the Velocity-POH screen which contains the Match UP to play the two best horses of the top four. Most of my winners come from analysis and form judgements. Yesterday was just a down and dirty review using this new and improved workout %. I left all the horses in, this can be better with proper contenders but in long layoffs of 90 day horses and FTS or STS they can and does indicate readiness. I also like a sharp work since last race as a sign of improvement and sitting on a big effort today.

Every race and or workout contributes to a horse's improving or declining form. Catch the direction!

Best of luck Bill.

Mitch44

Last edited by Mitch44; 08-14-2022 at 12:31 PM.
Mitch44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 12:43 PM   #5
Ted Craven
Grade 1
 
Ted Craven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 8,853
Hi folks! I'm on vacation right now for a few weeks, though checking in daily if I can for emergencies

First of all, it's NOT a new version, it's an initial testing version I sent to a handful of people for initial feedback. After dealing with that, I'll gradually expand the testing group in the Autumn as I polish off things. Hope for a new release later in the Autumn if all goes well.

Mitch - thanks for your ideas and explanations! it was an easy upgrade to the Workouts screen as all the stuff you suggested was already there - I only added a few highlights to bring things to attention.

Bill - the added underline simply identifies works in the past 30 days. The blue shading - as before - indicates works since last race (often the same thing).

Hover the mouse over the % column and it shows that the column means the workout was faster than this percentage of all horses that date, that distance. If faster than 50% of the horses, the % is in blue for emphasis. If a horse has a gate workout ('g') it is also emphasized in blue. These additions were Mitch's suggestions. For now, I'll let him discuss further how they might be used. I'll build that discussion into the documentation for the updated Workouts page.

Name:  workouts.jpg
Views: 805
Size:  171.3 KB

Ted
__________________

R
DSS -
Racing Decision Support System™
Ted Craven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 01:06 PM   #6
Mitch44
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Villages, Fl.
Posts: 3,705
Thanks Ted, sorry for letting my enthusiasm get ahead of the release. For me this is exciting stuff. Forgot all about that and the testing phase. An appetizer of things to come.

The color coding and enhancements make this stuff just jump off the page at you, great stuff.
Enjoy your well-deserved vacation.

Mitch44
Mitch44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 01:27 PM   #7
Mitch44
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Villages, Fl.
Posts: 3,705
A line under 30 days for workouts makes perfect sense. A biorhythm of humans is about a 28 day cycle and about the same for a horse. Its form pattern will generally fall into this area.

Trainers build stamina workouts into horses, and they can be before a fast workout or after. Those that are before get lost in the big picture by the slow stamina workouts after and can pay a big price. Recent one's are to see if its sharp and ready. They're like a Minnie race.

Just like Early Speed in its last race or a fast workout, one should take notice of improved speed.

Mitch44
Mitch44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2022, 02:51 PM   #8
Mitch44
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: The Villages, Fl.
Posts: 3,705
BTY Ted's example above the #1 Prarie Fire won the 3rd at SAR and paid $7.50 today. Corollaries were #2 TPR, #1 CR+, #2 RX3, #1 CSR, #2 PL. #2 BPP, # 1 Hidden Energy,
nice w/o since last race and best workout of 82% of all, take notice.
Mitch44
Mitch44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2022, 11:47 AM   #9
rdiam
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 606
Very hard to win in pools where everyone else has the same information as you do: plenty of speed ratings out there, and with TimeformUS and others, plenty of pace adjusted ratings out there as well. If you want to succeed in this game, you need to use stuff that most don't: workouts, form cycle analysis, trainer patterns, etc. Also, stay away from the more efficient pools, like the win pools, and focus on less efficient ones like exactas in big fields, and p5s where the takeout is minimized. The takeout is always lurking behind the scenes, and it is imperative to try to minimize it by using information or analysis that most don't.

Richard
rdiam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2022, 07:49 PM   #10
ranchwest
Grade 1
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,489
Ted, if you don't mind a suggestion... I would put in another color code at the high end, like above 89% or something like that.
ranchwest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Original Energy Program Lord John Classic Sartin Programs - Support, Discussion 0 01-18-2013 12:10 AM
energy program problems amydlarz Classic Sartin Programs - Support, Discussion 2 02-23-2011 11:27 PM
program to a different computer shrink1 RDSS 2 07-21-2009 12:39 PM
C++ manual entry program smilingtiger General Discussion 4 06-24-2009 05:38 PM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:12 AM.