Brohammer's MPH

[socantra]

Ted,
In a post on Pace Advantage, you indicated that you had committed to Trackmaster to include the readouts from the Brohammer/Massa MPH program in the next version of RDSS.

I've been playing with that program a bit lately and have become fond of the Quirin style pace and speed ratings that Brohammer used increasingly after his Sartin fps days, and to which he devoted a chapter in the revised edition of Modern Pace Handicapping. They are no magic bullet, but I've finally come to understand what Quirin, Jim Quinn and Brohammer were talking about all these years. Another handy tool and viewpoint.

I'm wondering if RDSS v2.0 will include those readouts, or were you speaking of something further down the line.

Dick

[JimG]

Ted,

As a follow-up to Dick's post, will it include the same oddsline and will it include an automated paceline selection?

I feel guilty piling on questions when I know you must be very busy but that is the price you pay for fame.

Jim

[For The Lead]

Originally Posted by socantra

Ted,
In a post on Pace Advantage, you indicated that you had committed to Trackmaster to include the readouts from the Brohammer/Massa MPH program in the next version of RDSS.

I've been playing with that program a bit lately and have become fond of the Quirin style pace and speed ratings that Brohammer used increasingly after his Sartin fps days, and to which he devoted a chapter in the revised edition of Modern Pace Handicapping. They are no magic bullet, but I've finally come to understand what Quirin, Jim Quinn and Brohammer were talking about all these years. Another handy tool and viewpoint.

I'm wondering if RDSS v2.0 will include those readouts, or were you speaking of something further down the line.

Dick

For other readers, who like myself are not real familiar with the concepts of the program you mentioned, would you please explain what it is and/or how it works.

[Ted Craven]

Dick, my intentions were more modest: since RDSS does not now include the main Phase III readouts of EP, SP AP, %E, I was going to include a Phase III/MPH screen to display them. I intended to adjust them, or not adjust them, according to existing Configuration settings (e.g. using TrackMaster DTV and ITVs). I felt I could recreate the line score and Oddsline.

So far, I was not intending to replicate Quirin Pace and Speed Ratings, but...

TrackMaster put it to me that they have many MPH users (what, maybe a dozen...) who wanted a Windows version. They didn't specify whether those users were enamoured of the Phase III factor array or the Quirin Pace and Speed figs, and the former is fairly easy to produce.

Jim, automated paceline selection is intended to be a general aspect of RDSS 2.0.

Don't worry about screen proliferation: I intend to simplify a lot of the existing screens, while permitting users to configure the displays to range from 'spare' to 'the whole enchilada' (enough data to stuff a duck, and confuse yourself into paralysis if you're not careful...).

I see it primarily as a migration path for those folks familiar with MPH/Phase III, but who might be interested in what came after. If by comparison it can be shown to have independent or situational value, well then so much the better. But I am somewhat skeptical.

Ted

[socantra]

Question answered. Thank you.

[tom]

This is indeed interesting news......

[For The Lead]

Originally Posted by socantra

"Brohammer/Massa MPH program...I've been playing with that program a bit lately and have become fond of the Quirin style pace and speed ratings that Brohammer used increasingly after his Sartin fps days"

Dick

Actually, it was this program that I was asking about, not how it applies or pertains to RDSS.

[socantra]

Originally Posted by For The Lead

Actually, it was this program that I was asking about, not how it applies or pertains to RDSS.

MPH is based on Tom Brohammer's book Modern Pace Handicapping. It was programmed by Ken Massa and became the velocity core of his HTR program, which has since expanded far beyond its simple base. You can find a lot more about it by doing a search on Pace Advantage. (Try Brohammer software). Brohammer abandoned it to Trackmaster in the mid nineties and they sell it for $150. It is a DOS program.

Ted has committed to include some of the readouts in a future version of RDSS, hence the question in this forum. He shows little enthusiasm for the project and that's understandable if all he is thinking about is final readouts. These are the three output screens. There is certainly nothing there to get excited about and nothing that RDSS doesn't already have in one form or another.

[socantra]

Following up on the last message, I would like to make an effort to interest Ted in some parts of MPH he doesn't intend to include. The two screenshots here are from the download utility and are used for paceline selection.

The 1st is nothing out of the ordinary. It could be from Val or Spec.

Please take a look at the second one though. The 2 columns in the center and on the right side of the page next to the running style are Quirin Pace and Speed numbers for the pace a speed figures for race and for the horse respectively. They are very simple to interpret. 100 is the base figure and represents the $10,000 par or NW1 par or whatever your using as a standard. The 1st number is 2nd call pace figure and the 2nd is final time. each number on the pace side represents a tenth of a second above or below that par and on the final time side it represents a fifth of a second.

Brohammer became more fond of these numbers doing seminars with James Quinn and included a chapter on them in the revised edition of Modern Pace Handicapping. They are Also the preferred figures used in James Quinn's Figure Handicapping and originally showed up in William Quirin's Thoroughbred Handicapping: State of the Art.

I'm finding these style speed and pace figures more and more useful, though it has taken me a long time to get there. Tom, I believe, has been using them for years. It would seem to be a fairly easy matter to adapt them to Trackmaster data.

It gives a good POR/POH, SOR/SOH comparison and might make the update of MPH a bit more useful project than it seems at the moment. If you're interested Ted, I'll be happy to help in any way I can, though I do believe that Tom may be the expert on thes numbers.

Dick

[Ted Craven]

Dick,

Thanks for posting those screenshots and for making the case for a fuller MPH compatibility. Shoot me an email and perhaps you can give me a bit more orientation about what's going on there and also how it diverges from or provides more info than provided by Spec or Val (or RDSS). Of course, you can also do that here on the Forums if you're interested.

I suspect there will be some redundancy with a few screen reorganizations I'm working on which show 2nd Call/Final Time for both the race leader and the horse in question (aka POR vs POH). Also, TrackMaster provides a Pace figure to match its Final Time Speed Figure which will make a debut in 2.0, FWIW. But I think we could benefit from being in synch with the usefulness of a tried and true program like MPH. Whether the resulting figs would be identical to those produced by MPH is debatable, but the relative ranks and differentials should be similar.

As always, my reasoning for providing more of the 'older' screens (e.g. Energy, Kgen, Phase III, TPR) is NOT because I feel we're lacking good Analysis now - but rather because folks are comfortable and familiar with some styles of presentation and those styles are a good place to start to explore (and contrast to) the core readouts we already have.

Ted