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Sartin Methodology Handicapping 101 (102 ...) Interactive Teaching & Learning - Race Conditions, Contenders, Pacelines, Advanced Concepts, Betting ...

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Old 07-10-2020, 11:53 AM   #1
kevbrim
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Newbie ?s

Hello all,

So I'm pretty much completely new to the horse game(about 4 weeks of reading/researching). I may not even use correct teminology, so forgive me if I say something wrong. I came across this board in some of my readings and it seems to fit how I want to approach the game. Mostly, I've been making fictitious bets, along with a few real ones and I've learned very quickly that betting low odds horses will not be profitable in the long term. Anyway, I think most of my focus so far has been on trying to find the pace of the race and then the horses that might benefit from said pace. Mostly right now I just try to get a feel for the race and order the top 4 horses. Most often my choices align with the betting odds but not always. All of this is done on paper with PPs. I'm actually "back testing" as Churchill downs gives free PPs to their historical races. So I download a PP, say for 5/27. Handicap it, and then watch the replays to see how my predictions come out. Anyway, there seems to be a WEALTH of information here, but I'm not really sure where to start. I did download the Follow Up 70-88 pdf and started looking through that. But I'm a bit confused, what exactly am I supposed to be looking for as I read through these? Most of it seems to be old PPs. I seems like there is decades of information, but no distillery to the nuts and bolts for a blank slate beginner. Any help would be much appreciated.
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Old 07-10-2020, 12:20 PM   #2
Mitch44
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Welcome aboard kevbrim. I would recommend my posts for Beginners, replies to those posts etc., go to the link below.



http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12316


Mitch44

Last edited by Mitch44; 07-10-2020 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 07-10-2020, 01:12 PM   #3
mnl97
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I've been in the group less than a year. Have learned so much. I'll be glad to answer any newbie questions you might have. To be successful with RDSS requires some effort but it will be well worth it. There is tons of information in the Sartin Library. Also use the Google Site Search to find answers. You are welcome to Private Message me or just post to the group with any questions. You'll find that there are lots of good people here that want u to succeed.

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Old 07-10-2020, 04:57 PM   #4
Lt1
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Welcome aboard Kev. As suggested by Mike please avail yourself to the library section of the form. There are 2 excellent videos that should be great help[especially the one on one by Doc] plus many excellent audios. I recommend the Brohamer audio series to start with. Keep posting questions since members are always willing to help you out. Wishing you good skill with the Methodology.
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Old 07-10-2020, 07:09 PM   #5
kevbrim
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Thanks all for the tips so far. I'm plowing through the "From the Top" series in the Follow Ups right now. I did manage to locate the audio section after my first post and bookmarked that for later. I didn't see any videos LT1. I'll look again later.
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Old 07-10-2020, 07:10 PM   #6
Lefty
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I think the reason the Follow Ups not making a lot of sense to you is because they were written as guidelines for using Sartin software.
You are doing eyeball handicapping. The Match Up manual in the library may be just the thing you are looking for.
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Old 07-11-2020, 12:23 PM   #7
shoeless
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Read the contender guidelines by For the Lead a lot of good info
in there, also the Match Up lessons done by Richie P with Jim Bradshaw.
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Old 07-11-2020, 01:03 PM   #8
MJS6916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitch44 View Post
Welcome aboard kevbrim. I would recommend my posts for Beginners, replies to those posts etc., go to the link below.



http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12316


Mitch44

I must have read through this thread about 5 times,

took notes for about 4 hours on it too.

Well worth digging into.


Thanks for doing this Mitch. Hope to return the favor real soon.

Mike
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Old 07-11-2020, 01:57 PM   #9
mick
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Welcome, kevbrim. RDSS contains all the functionality of Doc Sartin's many programs so there is a lot to digest. Nothing wrong with "paper" bets. I do it whenever I'm trying something new.

In the short term, you may want to focus on the Rx page and in particular the "PL" and "BPP" columns. The top four in each will give you about 80% winners. That reduces your contenders to something more manageable.
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:11 PM   #10
Ted Craven
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Kev, you have to decide how much 'theory' and 'history' of the Sartin Methodology you need (or can stand). At any given historical time point, all publications, discussions and seminars at least referred to or in many cases were exclusively related to whatever was the current software tools of the day.

Today, the current software toolset is RDSS. Doc said you could reduce things to ONE screen in RDSS (then, the BL/BL screen) and save people who were coming to analysing horse races much of the mental clutter and paralysis by analysis. As always, even in his final years, he was being kind and somewhat hyperbolic .

But, seriously, to get started and enjoy a simplified (though powerful) analysis of a given race in 1 minute (or however much time after that you wanted) - you could do a lot worse than to start with the RDSS Rx+ screen.

Find posts by member rmath (Dick M or Rich M - I've always called him Dick) or entice him to re-post a summary of his 4-number method here. (4-numbers = VDC, CSR, ProfitLine, BRIS Prime Power). There is more on the Rx+ screen, but you could start there. A simple method exists to eliminate down to 4 horses maximum for Win Contenders, while leaving some others as in-the-money Contenders. To begin, use the lines for each horse picked by the software (later, improvise - or not).

It really does take 1 minute or less. If you have time, or want to confuse yourself before you know what you're doing, you can look at each horse's Past Performances and second guess the program. If you connect RDSS to the toteboard (when it works, in the current version ), you get additional info about horses which win or finish in the money a very high percent of the time - the P/W Place to Win pool live money ratio.

Then, read everything posted by rdiam (Richard D) about betting, wager construction and passing races.

Of course, there are many other excellent members' posts to go over and digest their advice and usage practice, including Mitch44, Lt1, Bill V, For The Lead, even me ... and several others for sure.

The historical Follow Ups documented the history of things and taught those at the time. Today, this Forum is the Follow Ups and we are all trying to help each other.

I know you're just getting started, and so far are hopefully pretty free of 'expert knowledge' and 'received wisdom'. That puts you ahead of most of the crowd, who already KNOW what doesn't work and what should work (but doesn't).

RDSS can be had for cheap on a 3-month subscription, and you can download data 1 card at a time, so the cost of entry for tools is low. There's TONS of back data available to test. But more important, if you work CURRENT races, and the SAME races which some other experts have worked and posted in their Daily Selections, you can model their behaviour and usage patterns. In a much shorter order than agonizing over guidelines from 1986, you can be making bets, keeping models, tracking your decisions, sharing and learning with others here.

Then you can go back and get a PhD in the historical Sartin Methodology! Or, understand the concepts and principles that the software enables. In other words, test drive the Ferrari first, then gradually appreciate what's under the hood and how all the magic works

Welcome, and wishing you all the best!

Ted
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