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Old 07-09-2012, 06:35 PM   #11
trotman
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Joseph,
For 40 years I worked alongside a very good handicapper by the name of Andy Smitts. Andy worked alongside of Ray Taulbot and I had the benifit of seeing the last work and notes of those two great handicappers. Where Ray could take a paceline from anywhere in the published lines from his early articles in ATM and his books this changed over time when the form started to list call times and such. I could never put into words what Michael Pizzolla wrote in his classic book Handicapping Magic with regards to the mindset of selecting pacelines but in my opinion it's a must read. It's not about him telling you which lines to pick, it's more about the reasoning about which are the best lines to pick. Then as Doc Sartin would say work a few lines fore and aft to see if the line is most representitive of the horse. I will say that every race and every horse is like a fresh snowflake, no two alike. If all my work matches closely to the track and distance profile, I could be on to something. I never step back should I miss because if in my gut that was the bet in the end it works out. The articles that Ray Taulbot wrote in his last 10 years was the culmination of his and Andy's work. Andy passed away on Mar. 13th 2010 and left me with everything he and Ray ever worked on that was never published.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:09 AM   #12
Ted Craven
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Here is the video of Dr Tim's seminar at Woodbine: http://bcove.me/usyv7nkk

Comments?

When asked how one obtains software to implement all the complex calculations, Tim asked people to contact him, though he graciously also pointed me out in the crowd as someone with Windows software.

I admit to being curious what his plan was going to be to in response to the inevitable questions re where to get modern software (not having involved me prior) - he wasn't going to hand out copyrighted copies of Speculator 160, was he?

Regardless, Spec160 (and Val4) as DOS programs beg the question sooner or later - isn't there some Windows software to do this stuff? I handed out about 20 business cards, and to all those of you who have joined PaceandCap in the past 2 weeks, and who are now evaluating RDSS - welcome and best wishes in your continued learning.

And a big thank you to Dr Tim and to Woodbine for all their effort in putting on this and other seminars with the mission of educating horse players!

Ted
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Last edited by Ted Craven; 07-16-2012 at 03:12 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:49 PM   #13
trotman
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Ted,
Everytime I try to stay out of something, me being me things pop up and draw me back in. First and foremost I'm glad that you have had recent people getting involved with RDSS since the seminar and your work with the Sartin Methodology the continuing learning and development is a labour of love and I for one am heart warmed that I can call you a friend. But there is always a catch, and that is self serving people such as TY that did the seminar for whatever self serving reason gets my blood boiling. I have given people who I do not know more respect than what he presented you before, during and after, and I do know that he will not be giving any seminar's in the future because of his performance and the way he carried himself that day. The members of this site, though I only know a few are Grade 1 and I am most appriciative to be amongst quality people like them. Ted you are who you are,a decent person, me a rose of a different colour.
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:13 PM   #14
JimG
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Woodbine Entertainment would be well served to ask Ted Craven to give a seminar for folks interested in learning about the present Sartin Methodology.

Trotman, You mentioned in another post that you used BLAM. Do you post on their forum? If so, what is your handle? Mine is the same as here.

Jim
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:35 PM   #15
trotman
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Jim I totally agree with what you say and I have the connections to make it happen the way Ted would want it to happen.
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Old 07-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #16
Mr.Pagine
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Seminar

Why is the volume so low on the video?
If you were present - can you please give me a reply on how you thought the Seminar went?

I will be at Woodbine Tomorrow upstairs in the Turf Club - drop by and see me.

JD
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:14 PM   #17
trotman
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Mr. Pagine I was not there but watched the video and had feedback from those who were there. I know for a fact that Woodbine Entertainment was totally embarrassed not by the turnout, but the whole seminar was self serving. TY has stood on his last soap box and personally goodbye. Please do not take my opinion on this as right or wrong it was only an opinion. In my
opinion he is the opposite of what we the members have here, a free forum to discuss and help one another. The weakest or better description the newest members of this site I would do whatever it takes to help them but TY is and will always be about "HIM" and thank god he is gone from here and other sites as well. In my words "A CANCER". I will make a point of popping up
to the Turf Club tomorrow, Thank You for the invite.
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:47 PM   #18
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"Ted you are who you are,a decent person, me a rose of a different colour."

Well said, Trot. I couldn't express my opinion about TY as well as you did.
Lets talk about Ray Taulbot, lets do it for the less informed.
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Old 07-17-2012, 05:53 PM   #19
wilbur porter
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I have only been interested in handicapping for 3 years now, and only joined this site in November of 2010. I am not an expert, I don't post regularly nor have I attended any seminars or gathering. I am, hoever, one of those who at first empathized with the "Disappointed Evaluator".
I was impressed by Ted's response to my post and was determined to follow his advice and instructions.I read most of his posts, the recommended manuals and Follow Ups, viewed the videos and listened to many audios.
Not completely satisfied, however, I continued to search and study other methods of handicapping. Before coming to RDSS I had originally started working with some of the Bob Pitlak software and then focused for some time on the Randy Giles Pace Appraiser(an excellent approach to pace shapes). Later I studied Ken Massa's HTR, Michael Pizzolla and his magical Magic Handicapping book, video and software, Charles Carroll's methods, William L Scott, etc etc, etc ... probably just like every member on this site.
I am not trying to brown nose you Ted, and as you often say, there are many ways and methods, even with only Rdss to handicap, but in my opinion you offer the most comprehensible and accessible method to handicapping for the "average Joe".
As we all know the Sartin Methodology helped revolutionize the art of handicapping. Many of the people who helped Dr Sartin have either passed away, retired or adapted the teachings and implemented them in their own venues and methods. That's fine. I love the Pizzolla videos. I've learned a lot from them. Randy Giles' Extreme Pace Handicapping is wonderful.
However I've learned so much more about handicapping from your software and site - and it seems that I discover so much more daily by re-reading the forum, the manuals and of course by using the software over and over again. The contributors to the forum have valuable insights as well - Barb (you can tell about a person by how well they take care of their mother ), Ritchie, Froggy, PKTrucker, Partsnut, For The Lead, Silent Run, Bill V, Mike Sal...and even Tim.
Frankly I have read many of Tim's posts in the past and have even used some of his suggestions in my handicapping and I hope that he is successful in his teaching efforts, however... Frankly I am not happy about the way he interacts with you or the members of this site. He certainly appears to have a good grasp of the methodology, but perhaps might be lacking in a few areas.
We have a saying in India - "Everyone wants to be a Guru, but no one wants to be a disciple". From the beginning I have noted how you are very low key, seemingly mild mannered and to the point. You don't appear to put yourself, your ego or your software on a pedestal. You don't push your methods or your products but you quietly make them available to those who are open and listen. NO FANTASTIC SALES PITCH! NO SENSATIONALISM! NO FALSE ADVERTISING! And you keep the forum even keeled.
Oftentimes it is seen that a true disciple of any great teacher is not necessarily he who is physically closest or more renowned. William Blake succeeded Swedenborg, Fritz Peters followed Gurdjieff, and Lao Tzu was influenced by Confucious. I am not saying that handicapping horse races is on a "par" of a religious teaching (though it could be) but rather I am precisely stating that right now you are presenting the Sartin Methodology and making it easily accessible in it's purist form, like a true disciple. Once the disciple has imbibed the teacher's teaching, then he is free to go out and teach. You, my good man, are more than qualified to hold seminars.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:05 PM   #20
trotman
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Wilbur, well done a beautiful bit of expression. I have sat with Ted at his home and we have handicapped together and he is a very caring and generous man. I can always tell what he is thinking when sitting with him, though he may beg to differ, ha ha. Again well said.
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