Where is Tim Y?

[Jeebs]

I hope He's OK. Haven't seen him post here since March.

Like him or dislike him, the guy was very provocative when it came to his stated approach using the Methodology, which often clashed with the conventional wisdom preached by the Doc. Such challenges to the norm can spark lively and informative debate.

It gets repeated over and over, the recipe to Sartin success is applying consistency to your handicapping. We may agree on some things and agree to disagree on others, but if it works for some and they demonstrate consistent success, it is hard to knock that.

[Jeebs]

I guess I lived under a rock... I see what happened after going back through previous history. That's a shame that he is banned. Like I said, Tim was provocative, more or less because he found things in the Methodology that worked for him that perhaps defy the original wisdom intended by Doc and others from PIRCO and other practitioners. That said, what was done did violate the spirit of rules but IMO he was trying to help someone out. The execution was poor (should have kept it private) and I can understand why long time owners of Sartin material would be offended. Nevertheless, I believe that Tim should be given an opportunity to speak out, as Ted had extended that much to him and he should be allowed back into the discussion.

Debate is a healthy thing. It is also a voluntary thing. If we disagree with someone's viewpoint, either counter their view or simply tune them out.

[Mark]

I thought he was a pompous Ass. "Turf Historian", give me a break.
Discourse is great and can be productive but there has to be some willingness to compromise.
Generally speaking, it seems that the core members and occasional posters on this site exhibit a benevolent regard for others. I never felt that about Tim Y's comments. They dripped with sarcasm and were pointedly condescending. Who needs that?
But then that's just one man's opinion.

[Lt1]

The main problem I had with him was the way he would blow up an otherwise productive thread with a post totally unrelated to the topic thus taking the thread completely off topic.
Tim G

[raceman5]

For one agree with Mark 100%. And I don't think this is the first time Ted tossed him. He is a very very bitter person. this board has always had good constructive and helpful conversation. And in the words of Forest Gump. "That's all I'm going to say about that"

Bob

[Ted Craven]

Jeebs, I think you got an answer to your question! I agree, Dr Tim has a very strong knowledge of the Sartin Methodology and has done the work to come up with his own valuable insights which he has shared over the years. And - there is no question that erudite and respectful debate and contrary opinions about application of Sartinesque methods, including challenge and improvement on traditional ideas - all are welcomed, dare I say needed. No one is banned because they disagree with Sartin, or Bradshaw or Bill V (or me, god forbid).

In person, Tim is very generous and engaging and over the years has given PaceandCap groups a tour of Woodbine behind-the-scenes, for which I thank him.

Alas, his 'bed-side manner' online is incompatible with the style we have at Paceandcap, and has a recurring tendency to provoke inflamed discussion - which cannot just simply be ignored and allowed to 'go off the rails' as it may. At least, not while I am the designated 'curator' here. Everyone who was once banned here and who asked to be reinstated and made a respectful case, I have reinstated, and in Tim's case, about 3 or 4 times (the memory fades). Fool me thrice+ ...

I know he reads this site. If he wants me to publish his email address so people may write him privately, I will.

Meanwhile, let's close this Thread and find some good wagers today!

Cheers,

Ted

[Bill V.]

Ted closed Jeebs post about Tim Y before I could comment.
Since I was mentioned as a possible reason for Tim's inability to post
I would like to respond

The #1 point I would like to stress is, Tim is a very nice, generous caring man. If you ever get to meet him, You will be pleasantly surprised how nice he is.

He has sent me many valuable bits of racing memorabilia.
As well as Mark Kramer's book Scared Money with a very nice note of encouragement.
He has never asked for anything. He is a very giving good man.

The problem with Tim is no matter how hard I have tried I can't get him to post his messages here on Pace and Cap in what Ted and I call the Pace and Cap way.

That is, be positive and friendly, Post your opinions with a helpful desire to see your fellow members succeed.

Speaking for myself - I'm very sure Ted agrees - There would be no Pace and Cap without the personal promise I made to Howard Sartin, That promise was, I would keep Pace and Cap's core value of "Friends helping Friends WIN," alive and not allow negative posting. Pace and Cap would simply be an electronic/ online continuation of his Follow Up journal.
Howard did read Pace and Cap, If he didn't like something about it I would be told so. I still read every message and thread with that thought in my mind, would Howard Sartin allow this behavior in the Follow Up ?

I hope someday Tim will learn, and he will finally post from his heart because he has a great heart. He had some very helpful ideas,
He just presented them in the wrong way -

Posting how to get "free" copies of Sartin Programs is a big NO-NO

Thanks
Bill