Help with the "method" - Pace and Cap

justin13892002 · 04-18-2009, 11:27 AM

I am newer here to the pace and cap forum and have been intrigued by Doctor Sartins method. I have purchased all of Mr Sartin's books as well as Tom Brohamers books. I am curious as to if anybody can help me with some of my questions. Any help is appreciated.....

1.) I have read in Brohamers "MPH" the model on which pace-lines to select. I understand it but i have read around here other methods? My question is if anybody could possibly help me with the paceline selection.

2.) This is one I just cannot figure out. I was a physics minor and know how to calculate Acceleration and its negative form, deceleration. My main question dealing with this is how to set-up a deceleration graph or even how to calculate and use HORSES deceleration in regards to other horses ax/dx.

3.) I also know how to calculate the energy distribution and such, but the question regarding this is how to use it against other horses. The horses energy distribution always pertains to its style....

4.) Track Profiles and Brohamers Decision Model both work really well in helping decide what factors are hitting in certain situations. My last questions is again back to Deceleration. I understand this is a HUGE part of the game, and not many handicappers use it. My question is what the formula for calculating it is, and a more important question, how to use this between the contenders of the race.

Again any help is appreciated....

Thank You

For The Lead · 04-18-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin13892002

I am newer here to the pace and cap forum and have been intrigued by Doctor Sartins method. I have purchased all of Mr Sartin's books as well as Tom Brohamers books. I am curious as to if anybody can help me with some of my questions. Any help is appreciated.....

1.) I have read in Brohamers "MPH" the model on which pace-lines to select. I understand it but i have read around here other methods? My question is if anybody could possibly help me with the paceline selection.

2.) This is one I just cannot figure out. I was a physics minor and know how to calculate Acceleration and its negative form, deceleration. My main question dealing with this is how to set-up a deceleration graph or even how to calculate and use HORSES deceleration in regards to other horses ax/dx.

3.) I also know how to calculate the energy distribution and such, but the question regarding this is how to use it against other horses. The horses energy distribution always pertains to its style....

4.) Track Profiles and Brohamers Decision Model both work really well in helping decide what factors are hitting in certain situations. My last questions is again back to Deceleration. I understand this is a HUGE part of the game, and not many handicappers use it. My question is what the formula for calculating it is, and a more important question, how to use this between the contenders of the race.

Again any help is appreciated....

Thank You

Wirh regard to your question #1, I will misquote intentionally, but still make the point. Opinions on pace line selection are like ..."hearts"... everybody has one. Judging from your post, it appears you are an educated individual. So here is my advice.
Having already read that which you noted above, decide on the pace line selection method YOU feel is most useful to YOU. Judge YOUR pace line selection method from YOUR results. If YOU become unsatisfied with YOUR results, rethink YOUR method and make corrections based on YOUR OWN findings.

justin13892002 · 04-18-2009, 09:27 PM

Thanks for the reply!!!! I will take that and give it a shot and try and track the results. Thanks again!

Bill V. · 04-19-2009, 03:18 PM

Hello Justin

First welcome to Pace and Cap
Thank you for a very thoughtful post
Many of your questions and thoughts pertain to the early Sartin methodology
I am only what you might call a modern Sarin methodology user.
That is I have always used energy/quantam programs.As far a paceline
selection selection, I guess that is timeless you should look in the
paceandcap library Please check out the yellow manual and the Pace line
manual. The thing that will aways be steady about line selection is that
you pick lines consistantly and look for a line that best represents a horses ability in the last 3 races and shows the horses ability when it runs well
If and when you become more involved in what is called the modern Sartin Methodology The guidelines change to more of a method of picking
good lines from the last 3 races and either choosing one of these lines yourself . or letting the program choose the best line. If you read
follow Up 70 thru 88 this will be very clearly described. But above all
picking acelines is the key to winning with any aspect of the Sartin Methodology

Good Skill
Bill V

justin13892002 · 04-19-2009, 03:36 PM

Thanks for the reply Bill. I will read through those particular parts and will see how well they work for me. Just one follow-up question. What is the difference between the Original and the Modern Methodology. Once again thanks for your replies!!!!

Regards,

Justin

Tim Y · 04-20-2009, 11:31 AM

Do yourself a BIG BIG favor and dismiss Brohamer's POSITIONAL analysis of running sytles as only about 5 to 8% of horses are strictly positional.

Energy distribution running styles, once the idea is mastered, have ti ALL over positional ones.

justin13892002 · 04-20-2009, 11:38 AM

Thanks for the reply Tim. I am doing some research on Mr. Bradshaws Match-up and am really liking it. My situation though is I can narrow the race to 3 horses. One of those 3 horses won 90 out of 103 races I went through. My problem is narrowing it down to 1 like he did. Can anybody elaborate on this or possibly give me some pointers on how to select that 1 out of my 3 contenders? Any help is appreciated!

Tim Y · 04-20-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin13892002

Thanks for the reply Tim. I am doing some research on Mr. Bradshaws Match-up and am really liking it. My situation though is I can narrow the race to 3 horses. One of those 3 horses won 90 out of 103 races I went through. My problem is narrowing it down to 1 like he did. Can anybody elaborate on this or possibly give me some pointers on how to select that 1 out of my 3 contenders? Any help is appreciated!

if you want a life of frustration, keep narrowing it down to ONE wagering choice. 80% of races are close enough so that even a minor mis-step or miscue could make the difference at the end.

In races you think you have figured out, think in terms of races SCENARIOS, plural, taking into account these unpredictable variations. MAKE your own odds line and compare it to the crowds (good book Mark Cramer's The Odds are on Your Side, or Fiero's Four Quarters of Horse Investing)

Think shot gun on wagers in races you understand: win. place, exotics.

Wagering is without a doubt, the final frontier, that is almost NEVER addressed adequately in any publication. Be as creative and hard working on THAT side of the coin as you are on the handicapping side and you will be MILES ahead of the crowd who handicap and bet on the fly.

KNOW and be able to call the race. Practice calling races you think you know long before you put REAL money on them. When you are calling races close to how they are running, then you are ready to wager: NOT BEFORE

Find a specialty: mine are early horses and I often get HUGE place prices on pace horses that hang around longer than most think they will, often at a much bigger mutuel than the winner.

RichieP · 04-20-2009, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin13892002

My situation though is I can narrow the race to 3 horses. One of those 3 horses won 90 out of 103 races I went through. Any help is appreciated!

Bet all 3 horses to win and retire to a life of luxury anywhere you like.

It is that simple. A hit rate in three choices of over 85% is unparalleled by anyone in today's racing.Period.

If Mr. Bradshaw's concepts have helped you achieve this consider a thank you note to his bride LeRoi. I am quite sure she would be tickled pink to hear from someone who has been helped by Jimmy's teachings.

LeRoi Bradshaw
3335 South 114th East Avenue
Tulsa,Oklahoma
74146

justin13892002 · 04-20-2009, 12:40 PM

Thanks for the insight guys. I just got done listening to ALL of the Saratoga Seminar in which Jimmy spoke. Enlightening stuff. Richie, I will most def. get a letter her and tell her how inspiring Jimmy was and how much I have learned from him. His skills have escalated my game. Thanks again for the help!

04-19-2009, 03:18 PM	#4
Bill V. The egg man Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Carlsbad, California Posts: 10,005	Hello Hello Justin First welcome to Pace and Cap Thank you for a very thoughtful post Many of your questions and thoughts pertain to the early Sartin methodology I am only what you might call a modern Sarin methodology user. That is I have always used energy/quantam programs.As far a paceline selection selection, I guess that is timeless you should look in the paceandcap library Please check out the yellow manual and the Pace line manual. The thing that will aways be steady about line selection is that you pick lines consistantly and look for a line that best represents a horses ability in the last 3 races and shows the horses ability when it runs well If and when you become more involved in what is called the modern Sartin Methodology The guidelines change to more of a method of picking good lines from the last 3 races and either choosing one of these lines yourself . or letting the program choose the best line. If you read follow Up 70 thru 88 this will be very clearly described. But above all picking acelines is the key to winning with any aspect of the Sartin Methodology Good Skill Bill V

04-20-2009, 11:31 AM	#6
Tim Y turf historian Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,455	Do yourself a BIG BIG favor and dismiss Brohamer's POSITIONAL analysis of running sytles as only about 5 to 8% of horses are strictly positional. Energy distribution running styles, once the idea is mastered, have ti ALL over positional ones. __________________ Albert Einstein:"The monotony and solitude of a quiet life stimulates the creative mind."

04-18-2009, 11:27 AM	#1
justin13892002 Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 154	Help with the "method" I am newer here to the pace and cap forum and have been intrigued by Doctor Sartins method. I have purchased all of Mr Sartin's books as well as Tom Brohamers books. I am curious as to if anybody can help me with some of my questions. Any help is appreciated..... 1.) I have read in Brohamers "MPH" the model on which pace-lines to select. I understand it but i have read around here other methods? My question is if anybody could possibly help me with the paceline selection. 2.) This is one I just cannot figure out. I was a physics minor and know how to calculate Acceleration and its negative form, deceleration. My main question dealing with this is how to set-up a deceleration graph or even how to calculate and use HORSES deceleration in regards to other horses ax/dx. 3.) I also know how to calculate the energy distribution and such, but the question regarding this is how to use it against other horses. The horses energy distribution always pertains to its style.... 4.) Track Profiles and Brohamers Decision Model both work really well in helping decide what factors are hitting in certain situations. My last questions is again back to Deceleration. I understand this is a HUGE part of the game, and not many handicappers use it. My question is what the formula for calculating it is, and a more important question, how to use this between the contenders of the race. Again any help is appreciated.... Thank You

04-18-2009, 09:27 PM	#3
justin13892002 Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 154	Thanks for the reply!!!! I will take that and give it a shot and try and track the results. Thanks again!

04-19-2009, 03:36 PM	#5
justin13892002 Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 154	Thanks for the reply Bill. I will read through those particular parts and will see how well they work for me. Just one follow-up question. What is the difference between the Original and the Modern Methodology. Once again thanks for your replies!!!! Regards, Justin

04-20-2009, 11:38 AM	#7
justin13892002 Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 154	Thanks for the reply Tim. I am doing some research on Mr. Bradshaws Match-up and am really liking it. My situation though is I can narrow the race to 3 horses. One of those 3 horses won 90 out of 103 races I went through. My problem is narrowing it down to 1 like he did. Can anybody elaborate on this or possibly give me some pointers on how to select that 1 out of my 3 contenders? Any help is appreciated!

04-20-2009, 12:40 PM	#10
justin13892002 Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 154	Thanks for the insight guys. I just got done listening to ALL of the Saratoga Seminar in which Jimmy spoke. Enlightening stuff. Richie, I will most def. get a letter her and tell her how inspiring Jimmy was and how much I have learned from him. His skills have escalated my game. Thanks again for the help!