Sartin on place and show betting - Pace and Cap

stormbringer · 12-30-2025, 09:27 PM

I cannot remember what Doc advised to bet place and show bet at could anyone help me? I think it was 10-1 bet place and higher than 15-1 show, too. ALSO, could someone please tell me where the instructions to upload to this site is so i can learn how. Thank you for helping me with this for about the 10th time sorry it's like quitting smoking cigs if you fail keep trying

thank all about place and show betting look at the last race at Santa Anita Monday

storm

DanBoals · 12-31-2025, 02:13 PM

Hi Stormbringer,

In Follow Up #4 on page 13, Dick Schmidt talks about place and show betting.

In Follow Up #6 on page 29, Huey Mahl talks about pace betting and how to figure the payout followed by Howard's admonition to people not to overlook pace betting. On like page 37, Howard claims he makes all the money he needs on place betting alone.

To my knowledge, there were never any hard and fast rules by the methodology on pace or show betting, which is not surprising since the methodology is about adapting to the track you are betting and not trying to force the track into adapting to you.

Dan

p.s. There were a series of novels back in I think the late 60's about a king/sorcerer with a sword named Stormbringer; is that where the moniker is from? iirc, they were fun books to read.

stormbringer · 01-01-2026, 11:36 AM

Thanks Dan!

I will read the follow up you sent. I am call Stormbringer for the reason That I brought storms when I came to work. I worked for a storm tracking team in the state of Arkansas in the southwest section the state. a lot of driving.

DanBoals · 01-01-2026, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanBoals

In Follow Up #6 on page 29, Huey Mahl talks about pace betting and how to figure the payout followed by Howard's admonition to people not to overlook pace betting. On like page 37, Howard claims he makes all the money he needs on place betting alone.

not sure why, it would not let me edit
it should PLACE betting not pace, freudian slip?

interesting to note
Howard once said he would bet half his money (his two win bets per bettable race on the horses he thought were mostly likely) at the beginning of the day and then he would take the other half of his money and make bets on races where he found value.

He would see a horse at long odds and say to himself, there are only 2 possible horses in this race that can beat him, think I will bet him to show. The more I have thought about this system of betting, the more I like it.

DanBoals · 01-01-2026, 03:19 PM

Nice

I grew up in Oklahoma, outside of Tulsa, and had a cousin who studied meteorology at OU. That part of the country has some amazing weather.

DanBoals · 01-09-2026, 05:20 AM

Found another reference while rereading the phase iii manual

page 90

Howard writes "If you still feel you must wager under ( low win mutuels ) consider place betting or show betting on just one horse."

DELMARGRANT · 01-10-2026, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanBoals

Found another reference while rereading the phase iii manual

page 90

Howard writes "If you still feel you must wager under ( low win mutuels ) consider place betting or show betting on just one horse."

If one were to do that I would make sure the prices you get are profitable long term. If you are lucky enough to get 3 dollars place or show one would need 7 winners out of 10 to make a small profit.

DanBoals · 01-10-2026, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DELMARGRANT

If one were to do that I would make sure the prices you get are profitable long term. If you are lucky enough to get 3 dollars place or show one would need 7 winners out of 10 to make a small profit.

I think you might be assuming Howard meant to bet on the winner or low odds horse. I don't think this is what he meant. You are certainly welcome to read up on his writings to show I am wrong.

He mentioned one good score he made on a show bet, but I do not remember the book it was in. He said he was certain, no more than two horses in the race could beat this 23-1 or something horse, so he bet it to show. It showed, and he made like $7 or something on what he considered as close to a sure thing as there comes.

DELMARGRANT · 01-12-2026, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanBoals

I think you might be assuming Howard meant to bet on the winner or low odds horse. I don't think this is what he meant. You are certainly welcome to read up on his writings to show I am wrong.

He mentioned one good score he made on a show bet, but I do not remember the book it was in. He said he was certain, no more than two horses in the race could beat this 23-1 or something horse, so he bet it to show. It showed, and he made like $7 or something on what he considered as close to a sure thing as there comes.

Sorry, that was howI interpided it. I was wrong. Certinly if you have a horse that is like 15/1 and one is sure he will most likley hit the borad there is nothing wrong with place or show. I have heard Doc say this on the audio tapes.

DanBoals · 01-17-2026, 11:51 AM

I bet mostly exactas so I am probably not the best person on win/place/show... most of what I know is based on what I have read. If I remember right, Dick Schmidt who edited the early follow ups, was a fan of Ziemba's place and show betting methods. I don't know hardly anything about Ziemba, but if Howard let Dick put his name in the Follow Up, he must not be too far out there.

12-30-2025, 09:27 PM	#1
stormbringer Grade 1 Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 435	Sartin on place and show betting I cannot remember what Doc advised to bet place and show bet at could anyone help me? I think it was 10-1 bet place and higher than 15-1 show, too. ALSO, could someone please tell me where the instructions to upload to this site is so i can learn how. Thank you for helping me with this for about the 10th time sorry it's like quitting smoking cigs if you fail keep trying thank all about place and show betting look at the last race at Santa Anita Monday storm

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12-31-2025, 02:13 PM	#2
DanBoals Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 455	Hi Stormbringer, In Follow Up #4 on page 13, Dick Schmidt talks about place and show betting. In Follow Up #6 on page 29, Huey Mahl talks about pace betting and how to figure the payout followed by Howard's admonition to people not to overlook pace betting. On like page 37, Howard claims he makes all the money he needs on place betting alone. To my knowledge, there were never any hard and fast rules by the methodology on pace or show betting, which is not surprising since the methodology is about adapting to the track you are betting and not trying to force the track into adapting to you. Dan p.s. There were a series of novels back in I think the late 60's about a king/sorcerer with a sword named Stormbringer; is that where the moniker is from? iirc, they were fun books to read.

01-01-2026, 11:36 AM	#3
stormbringer Grade 1 Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 435	Thanks Dan! I will read the follow up you sent. I am call Stormbringer for the reason That I brought storms when I came to work. I worked for a storm tracking team in the state of Arkansas in the southwest section the state. a lot of driving.

01-01-2026, 03:19 PM	#5
DanBoals Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 455	Nice I grew up in Oklahoma, outside of Tulsa, and had a cousin who studied meteorology at OU. That part of the country has some amazing weather.

01-09-2026, 05:20 AM	#6
DanBoals Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 455	Found another reference while rereading the phase iii manual page 90 Howard writes "If you still feel you must wager under ( low win mutuels ) consider place betting or show betting on just one horse."

01-17-2026, 11:51 AM	#10
DanBoals Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 455	I bet mostly exactas so I am probably not the best person on win/place/show... most of what I know is based on what I have read. If I remember right, Dick Schmidt who edited the early follow ups, was a fan of Ziemba's place and show betting methods. I don't know hardly anything about Ziemba, but if Howard let Dick put his name in the Follow Up, he must not be too far out there.