Commentary on RDSS/TS Data usage - Pace and Cap

Ted Craven · 12-11-2023, 05:05 PM

NO. This is incorrect! I don't know any other way to state this more plainly. The webpage RDSS draws from is NOT - repeat NOT - a page which requires a login. Just hit the TwinSpires button on the RDSS Desktop (if you dare). The page which comes up does not prompt you for any login - so by definition you do not need a TS acccount. You can see the Prime Power and ProfitLine (and Tote and Mutuel prices and Scratches) on those pages: the SAME pages Mike showed above.

Debate whether they are free or not at your leisure. But since that revamp of TwinSpires became available (and since I updated the RDSS code several years ago to draw from it) - it has NOT required a login, i.e. it is a PUBLIC page, not behind a paywall.

One more time? You can get the figs RDSS gets if you don't have a TS account. (You naturally do need a TS account to place a bet).

I hope this helps clear up any confusion about public/freely available data versus data behind a paywall. Whether RDSS should access that public/free data and whether you should make use of it - I will leave to each person's discretion. (Though - people have been happy to use it for lo these past many years without the shock and 'pearl-clutching' I observe in this discussion).

While I'm posting - TwinSpires did not just suddenly 'kick off RDSS' - rather, they made yet another nuanced adjustment of their server code (like they have done any number of times in the past) which stymied the existing code RDSS uses. Like the elephant swishing its tale and swatting a fly off its back and the elephant is completely oblivious of doing so - I am about 99.99% confident TS had no idea or could care less who is affected by its changes as long as it makes their own webpages function better when appearing in your browser.

I won't bother elaborating on how I will address this, except to say that RDSS future access will be indistinguishable from accessing the TS public site (the one with no login) from a browser - because it will be using an actual web browser to get the data.

Ted

DanBoals · 12-12-2023, 05:02 AM

Not sure why people are upset about this, but let me throw out an example of a similar thing.

Lots of websites quote the DJIA. They give credit to the originator (like Ted does) and they present this number on their website under the fair use guidelines. You can go to Yahoo Finance right now and see the closing number. How is this different?

RDSS is simply displaying a publicly available number. Under the fair use guidelines this is perfectly legal. Do you really think every website that shows the Dow Jones Industrial Average is breaking the law?

Ted is not taking someone else's work and presenting it as his own work. That would be wrong of course. You are allowed as a writer or a website to quote or reference other's works. Howard did this all the time. This is nothing new. In fact, Howard's main gripe with this was when people did not credit him for his work so he tried very hard to make sure he always credited others' works.

Having written software for 30+ years as an employee and more often as a consultant, these kind of issues come up all the time and often a lawyer is consulted; and I am not a lawyer, but it seems like what Ted is doing in RDSS is simply the common practice that is called "fair use".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

I have been buying RDSS from Ted for about a decade now and he is one of the most transparent and ethical businessmen I have every dealt with. I would bet my last wager ever that he would never knowingly break the law with his software and I see no evidence that anything he is doing with RDSS is either illegal or unethical.

12-11-2023, 05:05 PM	#1
Ted Craven Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 9,259	*NO. This is incorrect!* I don't know any other way to state this more plainly. The webpage RDSS draws from is NOT - repeat NOT - a page which requires a login. Just hit the TwinSpires button on the RDSS Desktop (if you dare). The page which comes up does not prompt you for any login - so by definition you do not need a TS acccount. You can see the Prime Power and ProfitLine (and Tote and Mutuel prices and Scratches) on those pages: the SAME pages Mike showed above. Debate whether they are free or not at your leisure. But since that revamp of TwinSpires became available (and since I updated the RDSS code several years ago to draw from it) - it has NOT required a login, i.e. it is a PUBLIC page, not behind a paywall. One more time? You can get the figs RDSS gets if you don't have a TS account. (You naturally do need a TS account to place a bet). I hope this helps clear up any confusion about public/freely available data versus data behind a paywall. Whether RDSS *should* access that public/free data and whether *you* should make use of it - I will leave to each person's discretion. (Though - people have been happy to use it for lo these past many years without the shock and 'pearl-clutching' I observe in this discussion). While I'm posting - TwinSpires did not just suddenly 'kick off RDSS' - rather, they made yet another nuanced adjustment of their server code (like they have done any number of times in the past) which stymied the existing code RDSS uses. Like the elephant swishing its tale and swatting a fly off its back and the elephant is completely oblivious of doing so - I am about 99.99% confident TS had no idea or could care less who is affected by its changes as long as it makes their own webpages function better when appearing in your browser. I won't bother elaborating on how I will address this, except to say that RDSS future access will be indistinguishable from accessing the TS public site (the one with no login) from a browser - because it will be using an actual web browser to get the data. Ted __________________ RDSS - Racing Decision Support System™ Last edited by Ted Craven; 12-11-2023 at 10:23 PM. Reason: spelling, emphasis

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12-12-2023, 05:02 AM	#2
DanBoals Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 461	Not sure why people are upset about this, but let me throw out an example of a similar thing. Lots of websites quote the DJIA. They give credit to the originator (like Ted does) and they present this number on their website under the fair use guidelines. You can go to Yahoo Finance right now and see the closing number. How is this different? RDSS is simply displaying a publicly available number. Under the fair use guidelines this is perfectly legal. Do you really think every website that shows the Dow Jones Industrial Average is breaking the law? Ted is not taking someone else's work and presenting it as his own work. That would be wrong of course. You are allowed as a writer or a website to quote or reference other's works. Howard did this all the time. This is nothing new. In fact, Howard's main gripe with this was when people did not credit him for his work so he tried very hard to make sure he always credited others' works. Having written software for 30+ years as an employee and more often as a consultant, these kind of issues come up all the time and often a lawyer is consulted; and I am not a lawyer, but it seems like what Ted is doing in RDSS is simply the common practice that is called "fair use". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use I have been buying RDSS from Ted for about a decade now and he is one of the most transparent and ethical businessmen I have every dealt with. I would bet my last wager ever that he would never knowingly break the law with his software and I see no evidence that anything he is doing with RDSS is either illegal or unethical.