Training Angle And Pace Lines 7th@haw

[mufasa]

Originally Posted by RichieP

Guys,
How did Talbout qualify his contenders?

After he evaluated all the angles what criteria did he use to match them up and find and bet only the "fast ones"?

Rich:

I still have his booklet that came with the Pace Calculator and as stated before he would go as far as necessary to get the preferred pace line. It did not necessarily have to be held to the last 2 or 3 races. He did require if I remember clearly without the booklet in front of me that the contenders show recent racing in reasonably good form.

Only his top 3-5 Pace Calculator output contenders would be considered for further analysis of his 19 form/trainer angles which had a point system. So in the end the top couple of choices or the top choice if rated by 5 or more points would be the bet choice. That is you would add the contenders Pace Calculator points to the form/angle points and the sum of this gets you going towards a final pick.

The calculator would come up with the fastest horse because he used raw times in this regard and would if necessary and so desired by his customers utilize his track variant system to adjust the times. To this as stated above he would add the form/trainer angle points.

He had some surface and distance requirements but in fact the Power line definition is how he would pick his lines as I gather from reading his material. Ray was known as an expert in determining current form so he felt very comfortable going back past the last 2-3 races.

That is my recollection without his material in front of me,

Robert

[gl45]

was on e-bay...gone now

[RichieP]

Originally Posted by mufasa

Rich:
He had some surface and distance requirements but in fact the Power line definition is how he would pick his lines as I gather from reading his material. Ray was known as an expert in determining current form so he felt very comfortable going back past the last 2-3 races.

That is my recollection without his material in front of me,

Robert

"Mu"
I believe he compared horses by using the fastest pace of race in the horse's pp's where the beaten lengths finish was less than 5. This is stated very early on in his "lessons".

Reading some of his stuff he really was a pioneer in ways of looking at horse races. Most fascinating gentleman.

Trying to stimulate some discussion with folks that's all.

[mufasa]

Originally Posted by RichieP

"Mu"
I believe he compared horses by using the fastest pace of race in the horse's pp's where the beaten lengths finish was less than 5. This is stated very early on in his "lessons".

Reading some of his stuff he really was a pioneer in ways of looking at horse races. Most fascinating gentleman.

Trying to stimulate some discussion with folks that's all.

You are right Rich. To him a good race was one in which the horse finished competitively and the 5L criteria was part of that evaluation. He did have this 12 lesson course that is suppose to be still out there but I have never read it. I would not mind reading it but I would never pay the most likely very high price that is being asked assuming you can even get it.

Ray was definitely a pioneer and I believe that Doc Sartin recognized that in his writing. I am of the opinion that “The Hat” and Ray Taulbot as to the power line were on the same page, the big difference being Ray’s utilizing form/trainer factors as part of the rating and therefore win selection.

Robert

[mufasa]

Rich:

As a continuation to what I have said when using the RT Pace Calculator I never much liked or actually never used the form/trainer point system to add to my top contenders for a final choice. I believed then and still do now (especially so) that the form/trainer angles are just telling me If this horse is ready or being sent today. Adding the form/trainer factors to the preferred contenders can easily make one whom is not the fastest as derived by way of the raw times and pace calculator the better rated today and necessarily the bet.

If I remember clearly according to Ray he would only consider adding these additional form points if the contenders were within 5 points of each other. That is a 5 point advantage allowed you to bet the critter to win without any form point considerations and like I have said Ray expected that the contenders have shown reasonable good form anyway. Things like recent in the money finish or the 5L finish item and of cause he insisted recent racing.

I too like to throw different ideas around just for the sake of discussion. You do not have to give anything up that you do not want but can in a brain storming way get the juices going for further research or consideration.

Robert

[shoeless]

If your into meet specific trainer angles you cant go wrong with Jim Mazur he really does a great job on them.Jeff

[RichieP]

Originally Posted by shoeless

If your into meet specific trainer angles you cant go wrong with Jim Mazur he really does a great job on them.Jeff

Jeff
I hear from a couple of very strong players that regarding trainer stuff Ed Bain is top notch.He specializes in high % trainers with certain repeating patterns from what i am being told. Hope I spelled his name right man.

I've also heard that Mazur is good too

Richie

[shoeless]

Richie,Bain is famous for his layoffs and claims.I purchased a video from him and was very dissappointed with it.Jeff

[RichieP]

Originally Posted by shoeless

Richie,Bain is famous for his layoffs and claims.I purchased a video from him and was very dissappointed with it.Jeff

That's it Jeff. "Layoffs and claims. Couldn't think of it when i typed before.

Really you were not impressed? I gotta respect that knowing that this trainer stuff has been part of you for a long long time capping man. Definitely a strength and area you are strong in.

Have you seen any of this Mazur stuff? Is it totally meet specific things or other stuff?

[shoeless]

Bain is good but I just didnt care for him.Mazur's stuff is just for that track and he takes the stats from the last 2 meets.Which is good because this way your finding out how the trainer performs just at that meet.