The use of RDSS and the results

[Ted Craven]

I entered a NHC Qualifier a few weeks ago at Woodbine and finished in the bottom 1/3rd. That said - RDSS provided more than sufficient races from DMR and SAR that day to have put me way over the top. Contest strategy differs from daily play strategy: usually 1 horse WPS versus (for me) typically 2 horse Win or WP betting, plus Exact pools. You are constrained by tracks, sometimes by mandatory races, you have to pick which races to bet and which to pass, you have to bet on non-favourites, sometimes on a day when a given track may be quite chalky, etc, etc.

I have won or finished close on several Contests at PaceAdvantage and here at P&C. I am on the 2014 NHC Tour and fully expect to qualify somewhere to the Finals next February. That said, I am not a very good Contest player overall - yet. That's why I'm practicing. It is simply a different aspect to the handicapping/betting game. It has its merits and rewards, compared to parimutuel wagering.

I know of 2 multi-million a year players who include RDSS among their tools, and I know of a few more who I have first hand knowledge of their betting frequency and profitability over 15 years using Sartin software, now including RDSS. My own wagering is more modest and sporadic (though solidly profitable in 2014), as I am currently focused on running a business rather than primarily betting.

It is possible to make good money; rebates help. Ryan's citing of 20-30% ROI ongoing is a reality (OK folks, you now have official permission to scoff ). It is not easy by any means. The way to start - is to start! Finding a good mentor also helps.

Best wishes!

Ted

[Bill V.]

Hi Ted

Each person can devote a certain amount of time and money and enter or not contest based on factors totally unrelated to horse racing handicapping ability.

I too have done well in contest here and at Paceadvantage
Yet I grew tired of the restrictions of tracks and having to work races that were not to my strength. The funny thing is my strong finish in a pick 4 contest
were I only hit 1 week and still finished in the top 3 - I used Val 4 - it was many years ago.

The win percentage you and Ryan are looking for is very in your reach with RDSS or any Sartin progam So go for it with all your desire

[Hoof 11]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

Hi Hoof
Was the 20 week contest a free no risk contest?
That may be true but we also had many months of FREE No Risk handicapping contest for RDSS users here at pace and cap were I saw many cases of wild selections based on no risk "what the heck " strategy users. These users did well some months and bust out in others. This is why i no longer enter free no risk contest.


Good Skill
Bill

Hey Bill

Yes it was.

While some entrants chose to use that strategy of 'wild swings', it was incredibly stupid from my point of view. When the outcome is based on points and not dollars earned, the best strategy in this case is consistency. I can only speak from our point of view (Ted, Mike, myself), but our strategy was based on consistency, we didn't really take any wild swings whatsoever. We handicapped races exactly the way we would normally do so, and chose our selections accordingly. Nothing fancy, nothing ground breaking, just good ol fashion consistent handicapping.

After everything was said and done, we were one of 4 teams that actually showed a profit, if my memory serves me correctly. I was incredibly proud of what we achieved in the 15 weeks of regular season play, until Hoof convinced Ted not to use a $160 winner in the playoffs......

Back to my original point..... regardless of what you use in your arsenal of tools, it always comes back to the individual. You can have every last resource at your disposal, that doesn't mean you have an advantage over someone that doesn't.

[Bill V.]

Thanks Hoof

I agree with that.

In regards to that contest I was not downgrading your teams methods
and no matter points or $dollars there still is a reward for a wild selection

If yours or any team sticks in a wild "what the heck" horse and it does happen to win or place your getting points. What bothered me was you would never had bet it to win ( as a prime bet )
Maybe you usually bet $50 win bets and when you see this type horse
in your day to day betting you may bet a few dollars maybe across the board,or for $1 put it in as another horse in your exacta or in your horizontals .

But in this contest if you had it in your top 3 picks and it wins or places you get the same points as any other selection. Does that make more sense ?
Also I am PO'd because we missed advancing because in the last race we bet
Horse B and A and D
Horse A and B were our Sartin methodology 2 horse bets.
both are considered equal right ?
The team that ended up edging us out also bet horse A and B
but because they bet the winner A first rather than 2nd they earned more points than us yet we both had the top 2 horses

Thanks
Bill

[Hoof 11]

That’s the rules Bill, horse A gets triple return, you knew that going in. That was one aspect you had to get right, and Ted and i had discussions about horse order, much like betting it’s half the battle of success.

As far as people taking wild swings in contests, that’s fairly normal behavior from the big tournament players, except their swings actually hit and it’s a 1-3 day tourny. What i disagree with is, over a 20 week contest, how consistent can you be taking swings like that, you may have two or three good days out of 15, but you are much better off trying to break even every week. As crazy at that sounds, it puts you in the top 10 every week and you accumulate serious points over the 15 weeks, it’s very gradual but by the end you are sitting up top.

[gandalf380]

For those who are at Saratoga every Monday there is a handicapping contest. $40 buyin. It is a live money tournament. $10 goes to prize fund and $30 is your live bet money. Limited to 250 entrants so total prize fund is $2500. Nice inexpensive way to practice tournament play.

[Bill V.]

over a 20 week contest, how consistent can you be taking swings like that, you may have two or three good days out of 15, but you are much better off trying to break even every week. As crazy at that sounds, it puts you in the top

Hi Hoof

In regards to the top pick earning more than the second pick and earning or deserving more credit
That is not how the real world of betting works. Especially in regard to the Sartin Methodology
So that agin makes me unwilling to par take in these fantasy tournaments.

to what I quoted from you..
We are in agreement here for sure. This is exactly what I was saying from the top. This is why I doubt a person could win a big time tournament using best of last 3 preceptor and hiding the favorite. The top players are so much more consistent.

The other fact you mention also is true. I witness this as score keeper
in our RDSS learn to win contest The best results were from those who stayed at or near the top the longest and eventually hit a good price horse, that put them in front for good, Meanwhile I would see people hit the biggest
mutual payoffs but often they were so deep in dept from loses it did them no good except catch up to the consistent bettors But in a short tournament setting another big longshot would not come around again in time.

Good Skill
Bill

[Jeebs]

I will be using RDSS data and models in tomorrow's $20k game on DerbyWars. I won a $600 contest from Del Mar last week with this strategy and feel that DMR is in my wheelhouse. The perceptor as a guide is a good way to find hidden value horses whose current form isn't so obvious.

[Bill V.]

https://www.derbywars.com/tournaments

Hi Jeebs

That is nice Good for you, what was the entry fee for the Del mar contest ?
Thanks
Bill

[Ryan.p.coli]

Jeebs,

Respect. Congrats on the derby wars win. I myself have trouble narrowing down to 1 horse using RDSS out of the box.

Ted once told me that the Sartin Methodology has 2 parts: the tools and the matchup. Since I've been becoming more proficient with the Matchup on the forums here, my win % has gone up.

If you have any tips as to how you're narrowing down to 1 horse using RDSS readouts alone, please share.