New member introduction

[DaveEdwards]

Quick question, ought I to add the paceline selection manual to my early reading list?

I'm in the position where I have a lot of available reading time this August and would not have a problem fitting this one in.

Thanks

[Ted Craven]

I think that manual would not be out of line at all, since you're going back to basics.

Consider also taking some time to start working your way through the Follow Ups, say beginning with Issue 70 and working forward.

Happy reading!

Ted

[DaveEdwards]

Thanks Ted,

Will do.

[Dorianmode]

I remembered that almost all the formulas for the wagering calculator are in the very early Follow Ups, (the Huey Mahl Articles), in the Follow Up #2 and the few after. You can just write the formulas into a spread sheet.

Cheers.

[DaveEdwards]

Hello all,

As I read through the Follow Ups I'm finding that there is so much to take in that it is taking rather longer than anticipated, just finished 74 today. That said, I'm fitting it around family commitments etc.

I do have some questions if anyone could comment please:

1) The guidelines for selecting pacelines. I've been listening to the Sartin Pro Paceline Tapes. Was there any further guidance on the selection of pacelines done after these tapes were recorded or were they the most recent information released?

2) The Doc makes reference in Follow Up 74 that Trackmaster adjustments to pacelines were arrived at working with PIRCO. Does this still apply?

3) The Wagering Decision Form. Is this or something similar a part of the RDSS software? I'm particularly interested in the idea of visualisation that Doc suggests.

4) Whilst reading to the end of the Follow Ups is of course recommended, is there a point at which it might be considered appropriate to start looking at races and betting before?

Thank you anyone who read this.

[Ted Craven]

Dave, not in order:

2. Yes. Part of RDSS.

3. Not part of RDSS - yet. It's easy enough to record your wagers and BL/BL tier info (and any other rankings, e.g. VDC) which you deem appropriate. I can highly recommend keeping the WDC by hand or spreadsheet until it gets included in a future RDSS module.

1. Not sure the date (or specific content) of those Paceline Selection tapes, but every such discussion over the years utilizes the best technology at hand at the time. Arguably (and some may indeed dispute it), the current condition markups, Speed Ratings and other factors embedded in the Past Performances presented in RDSS are a good modern guide to consistent and effective paceline selection. As a generality, Doc came up with a 'best of last three comparable' (BLT/C) guideline which together with current form assessments, seems to be as powerful as it ever was. You may be interested in a current discussion related to paceline selection (http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthr...newpost&t=7766) and there are other recent enough, and detailed discussions.

4. Now is always a good time to start handicapping . It is impossible (and indeed undesirable) to avoid mistakes during actual practice, but the experiential feedback from the process can be more valuable than months of reading. I would recommend holding back actual wagering until you have at least 5 cycles of 20 races (100 races) on your Wager Decision Form showing a profit (i.e. anything greater than 0% ROI). For example, if the first 3 cycles of 20 (i.e. 60 races) are not profitable, keep going until 5 cycles in a row are. I know this sounds like a lot of work, but believe me the practice will be fascinating, and it's better than losing your initial bankroll and running the not-uncommon hazard of total discouragement.

You can start with past races to get a feel for the process, but then as soon as you can, do it in real time, with real odds, say utilizing odds at less than 5 minutes to post (or less).

One final note: consider doing what Chris L has done in the above mentioned thread: post a few 'posers' for folks to comment on. Teaching and learning is what we do around here. There's no shame in losing a race - the biggest shame is to have world-class tools and be too shy to ask for guidance on how to master them. It's what Doc Sarrtin and his teachers was all about, and so it is also here.

Good luck, and skill!

Ted

[Ted Craven]

Dave, a follow up on The Follow Up:

At FU issue 74, you're just getting into the 'good stuff' (i.e. the approach considered 'the modern methodology', one represented by Validator in Doc's time, and by RDSS today). Not saying that the fore-runners of Validator (Energy, Thoromation, Synthesis et al) were not or are not still eminently useful today, but that Doc considered his later work to be invaluable extensions and simplifications of what went before. Part of that evolution is in the TrackMaster adjustments, part in the evolution of the Bottom Line/Betting Line score, and part in the V/DC readout.

Happy reading!

cheers,

Ted

[DaveEdwards]

Thank you Ted for the detailed response. I'll check out everything you suggest.

I'm going to aim for next Sunday as a starting point. I'm thinking in terms of Woodbine as the track I intend to begin with. The schedule fits reasonably well with my day to day life, except Wednesdays when the meeting ends around 2:30am UK time! The online coverage from Woodbine is particularly good I feel.

[DaveEdwards]

May I ask the best way to gain an understanding of the class structure at a racetrack?

I have the Handicappers Condition Book (Quinn) that I bought recently. I assumed that this was the place to start as I have seen this mentioned. Obviously I don't want him slipping any mainstream ideas into my head! Is the best place to start or is there something within the Methodology material that someone may be able to refer me to?

Thanks.

[mikesal57]

Dave ..go to the tracks web site and find the "condition book". Then you'll have a good idea on the available classes that they will have available.
Then sort it out from top to bottom and you will have the ladder.

mike

heres an example from Mountaineer
http://www.mtrracetrack.com/content_...__14_Index.pdf