ray taulbot and angles

[mufasa]

XTB:

Boxcar left the PA site as to positing his angles for very good reason. I too utilize many of his angles for which there are plenty. I am glad that I took his offer approximately 18 months ago and sent him my email address. The best thing that I have done for myself in this game recently is to invest into getting and working with the RDSS program. Having said that I am extremely pleased that when I get down to the top 5 contenders I can then besides other handicapping factors also utilize some form factors towards selecting the final two choices to bet. Nobody ever said that it has to only be one way or the other. Even Boxcar from time to time would consider PCR numbers but in my opinion when it comes to numbers RDSS is up there with the best.

Robert

[partsnut]

Originally Posted by xtb

Wow, I was just trying to clear up some mis-information you had posted. There weren't a "chosen few", Anyone could have signed up to get his emails. It just turned out that there were only a handful of people interested and willing to put in the amount of work required. He's understandably not accepting any more so he won't have to keep going back and starting over. Boxcar never left PA, he still posts there, but he stopped posting about his angles because of all the detractors. Most people wanted a quick "get me winners" method overnight and weren't willing to put in the effort. I won't mention this subject again other than to say that I would not have gotten 3rd place in the winter Fairgrounds contest if not for using Boxcar's angles. I use them every day in addition to my other methods and it works just fine for me.

I was never my intention to to disparage your post. If this works for you then it's fine with me.
I've been around this game for 50 years and I've seen just about everything. You might say I'm a bit cynical.
Everyone claims to be a Professor, Doctor and a Guru, when in fact they have no credentials and they give themselves these titles (self proclaimed). Who would even dispute or prove them to be frauds.

Maybe for the sake of my better understanding and for the group as well , you might want to address my questions if you so choose or can do so.

Does he do this out of the goodness of his heart?
Why would he not share and impart his knowledge and technical ability
to all that would want it?
What is his purpose and what does he hope to achieve?
And how credible is his presumed methodology?
How many students and proven winners does he have.
Maybe, because you are successful with it, you might point out
some of these angles and predict a few races (before the fact).

You know the old addage: Success breeds success.
This is ony true when in fact you are successful.
Some people claim to be but in fact are not.


As per your response.
"There weren't a "chosen few",

To me 10 pieces of software is for a "chosen few"

This reminds me of Earl "the pearl" and Pops and Tips.

[alydar_ David]

Originally Posted by Forego

i read somewhere that ray taulbot was an early pioneer in pace handicapping. also that he used special angles to identify horses.

any readers here familiar with him and his work? what exactly does an angle relating to horse racing do? i am familiar with things like third start off layoff etc.

i also believe he advocated using the best line showing for each horse to evaluate the race. if that is true that is some pretty radical thinking at least to me.

thank you in advance for any feedback on mr. taulbot.

I used every handicapping angle attributed to Ray Talbout which was printed by American Turf Monthly. I bet with real money and kept meticulous records. None of them made money over the long run.

Some of his angles involved betting, not handicapping. At least one of them is still viable.

[alydar_ David]

Originally Posted by partsnut

...This reminds me of Earl "the pearl" and Pops and Tips.

I made quite a bit of money with his trainer angles initially, especially in baby races. However, like so many things in this game, once the word got out the edge dissipated.

[partsnut]

Originally Posted by alydar_David

I used every handicapping angle attributed to Ray Talbout which was printed by American Turf Monthly. I bet with real money and kept meticulous records. None of them made money over the long run.

Some of his angles involved betting, not handicapping. At least one of them is still viable.

David, thank you, You re-affirm my position that you can make a case for almost any given winner of a race. That's why there are so many angles.

As you honestly admitted and I appreciate your honesty and sincerity,.
that none of these pre-supposed angles will make you any money for over the long run. I know that you diligently keep records that one can count on and appreciate the value your input
Everybodys looking for the magic bullet.

My favorite angle is "the angle of the dangle", but I seldom use it anymore because I hate to "stroke myself".

[Forego]

thank you all so much for the input,links and information. a lot more folks familiar with this then i thought.

[Zaf]

Over the years I have enjoyed reading ATM , especially the articles written by Ray Talbout.

[socantra]

Originally Posted by Forego

i read somewhere that ray taulbot was an early pioneer in pace handicapping. also that he used special angles to identify horses...............

i also believe he advocated using the best line showing for each horse to evaluate the race. if that is true that is some pretty radical thinking at least to me.

Taulbot was indeed a pace pioneer and one of the strong influences on Howard Sartin when he began putting together the methodology. Taulbot's style was based on pace of the race. As I remember, he did use the horse's best on the theory that you want to know what a horse is capable of. He also had a system of form points to try and assess how likely the horse was to perform to that 'best' performance.

If interested, I highly reccomend his book "Thoroughbred Horse Racing, Playing for Profit", which was originally published in the mid 60's. The most common edition is from the mid 70's, which was the 20th or so printing for AmeriPub, the publishing arm of American Turf Monthly. You can find it from the used sellers on Amazon or at Abebooks for $12 or so. I saw one on eBay tonight for $3. Its dated in some ways, but has a whole pace rating structure in it which is different from his Pace Calculator.

Yes, he also did angles. He had a long and varied carreer. He was also married to the daughter of one of Julie Fink's "speed boys' from New York in the 20's, so Taulbot was well grounded in east coast handicapping.

I'd be a little sceptical of the stuff in American Turf Monthly. Some of them were his originally, but have been rewritten several times. They own the rights to the name. Ray Taulbot still has a monthly column appearing in ATM, but the actual person has been dead for 40 years now. Apparently, old editors of ATM never die, they just keep writing columns forever.


Dick

[Jonathan Steele]

partsnut asked:

From what you say, it sounds to me like a religious experience and not a money making proposition.
Boxcar and the 10 decipals. The chosen few.....
Does he do this out of the goodness of his heart?
Why not share and impart his knowledge and technical ability
to all that would want it?
What is his purpose and what does he hope to achieve?
Is he the true benefactor of the horse bettor?
And how credible is his presumed methodology?
Why did he leave PA or was he driven off?

No, not only for "the chosen few." The door's open to all handicappers...at least the front door. Go here and read all about it:

http://www.sportsbettingacumen.com/f...sp?FORUM_ID=11

And don't forget to put on your "thinking cap" before you arrive, for it's not a methodology easy or simple to grasp (entirely), at least not the way my mind operates. However, I've found some of the simpler angles I've absorbed are very useful when integrated with computer-based handicapping methodology, for numbers don't always tell the whole story, especially with cheap horses, horses in NW2L races, etc.

Happy reading!

Jonathan

[gillb]

Ray Taulbot died in December 1969.

His wife Marjorie ran a course consisting of more than 25 lessons ( $5.00 a lesson ). They were excellent: set up and offered by HIM prior to his departure..

I still have them... priceless. I started in 1973 ... I know several people who
benefitted from these lessons. Each lesson had a practise race to be worked and submitted for grading.

melvaruth