Advice for a beginner, please and thank you! - Pace and Cap

w42hit · 04-24-2016, 09:54 PM

Hey friends-

Long-time follower, first time poster.

Not per se just starting out in my handicapping career, but, after having discovered pace handicapping, and then this website, and all of the names and educational material associated with it, and then taking the plunge and subscribing to RDSS, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed.

If anyone can take a minute, I'd appreciate advice on how to construct, shall we say, a cursory curriculum. That is to say, I'd appreciate an idea as to where to start in re all of the resources, archives, etc gathered here, and then maybe next-level-after-that-and-then-after-that kind of thing. I hope the request isn't too vague. I've found myself amassing a library that just seems to create more questions and than it answers, and finally realized I haven't exactly created a foundation and method for success.

I realize that this question may have been asked and answered before, but that's as much a testament to how much there is to be found here.

Any advice would be massively appreciated.

Ted-thanks for your patience in getting me set up. Funny story: After I got my subscription up to RDSS up and running, I took a working vacation down to Gulf Stream Park. Vaguely understanding what all the pretty colors in the program meant, I still won money for the weekend. In my ignorance of what it all actually meant, that's not necessarily a good thing. But, as not-good things go, it was pretty good.

At this point, I'm in for a penny, in for a pound. Any help that can be given would be massively appreciated.

poweshow · 04-25-2016, 03:08 AM

I'm largely in the same boat as you so take what I say with a grain of salt, I'll just simply list where I'm at...

I've read Modern Pace Handicapping, I'm pretty close to done with Pace Makes The Race and I've created my own excel spread sheet that enables me to enter fractional times and beaten lengths to obtain feet per second calculations, EPR/LPR and TPR (CPR?) ratings along with rankings for all of the aforementioned. I'm trying to extract as much information from the texts and the manuals that I can to create my own ratings and database (some 2,000 races now!) to better understand the numbers that go into RDSS. I have yet to purchase RDSS, but am doing everything I can to understand the program before I purchase it and I'm certainty going to purchase it once I feel I have the knowledge to get the very most from the program.

Is this the correct and most efficient way to do this? Probably not. But it's where I've begun my journey to hopefully, one day, become as successful as the others on this website.

In regards to the OP, I too am interested in some sort of curriculum to aid in my growth. As of now I'm in the manuals, but I have no real idea where the best place is to begin and it's quite overwhelming the sheer amount of data there is to go over. I'll be taking the guidance of anybody that has something to offer.

w42hit · 04-25-2016, 11:10 AM

-show

Thanks for that. I'm also interested in additional ideas for organization,
and for some reason I just haven't set up a spreadsheet, so thanks for the reminder. Fortunately I started out with 'Pace Makes...'. I think if
I'd started with Brohamer I might have been tempted to give up.
Best of luck to the freshmen, eh?

mowens33 · 04-25-2016, 01:58 PM

W42hit, I cut my horse racing teeth on this website, I did have a handicapping background but that was dog racing (which I still indulge in, were class rules and great rebates) so in my opinion you have come to the right place.
I have read everything under the sun, but I think poweshow is correct that if you haven’t read Modern Pace Handicapping by Tom Brohamerr then you should. In my opinion I think understanding ESP progression, energy distribution, compound factors, and the race within a race and understanding what are the key factors for winner/place at the track you are handicapping. This will help a lot when making your final selection from your contenders list.
Other key reads:
Pace Makes the Race by Tom Hamilton
The Match Up by Jim “The Hat” Bradshaw – Match Up Forum
Handicappers Condition Book by James Quinn
Thoroughbred Cycles by Mark Cramer
Ted’s recommendation on the follow-up 70 thru 88, and the Yellow manual
The reason I mention the above is that even though RDSS is a Great program (it will do all your calculations) sorting out the contenders (pace line is key) it is not a magic bullet.
I have learned a lot from the members of Pace and Cap and as long I am still in this game I will keep coming back.
So just from this post alone you are on the right track!
Mike

Mitch44 · 04-25-2016, 04:13 PM

mowens33 has given you guys some great reference material. This a discipline that isn't easily learned or that short cuts can be taken, to be successful not only requires reading but also practice and discipline in money management. Not an impossible task but one that at numerous times will seem so. Your limitation is controlled solely by yourself.
Good luck,
Mitch44

DaveEdwards · 04-25-2016, 04:42 PM

Not reading now, but check out the audio section. If as I do you spend a certain amount of time driving to & from work, it's an easy way to take information in without much effort.
I listen for two hours everyday, same stuff over & over.

Unless of course I'm in the mood for The Who!!

w42hit · 04-25-2016, 10:58 PM

Mowens33-

Got three of those titles, and thanks so much for the others. i feel like a kindergartner being groomed for an education in physics.

Man, I'll tell you what. Even if one didn't know the story of Doc Sartin, it only takes reading a few threads to know this thing started out as a support group.

w42hit · 04-25-2016, 11:14 PM

DaveEdwards-

That...is...AWESOME. I'm in my car hours per week, and very much an audio learner. You may have, with a few keystrokes, single-handedly amplified my education. INFINITE thank you's!

MikeB · 04-30-2016, 09:42 PM

There are a number of different approaches to using RDSS, and you have to find your own way. I think a big threshold question is whether you are qualitative or quantitative in the way you look at things. If you tend to be more qualitative, which I do, I suggest you focus on the Match Up.

In any case, no matter your bias or approach, the prerequisite to any application of RDSS is pace line selection. Start there, learn it, love it, and then start looking at the various ways of applying it.

04-24-2016, 09:54 PM	#1
w42hit AlwNW1X Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4	Advice for a beginner, please and thank you! Hey friends- Long-time follower, first time poster. Not per se just starting out in my handicapping career, but, after having discovered pace handicapping, and then this website, and all of the names and educational material associated with it, and then taking the plunge and subscribing to RDSS, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed. If anyone can take a minute, I'd appreciate advice on how to construct, shall we say, a cursory curriculum. That is to say, I'd appreciate an idea as to where to start in re all of the resources, archives, etc gathered here, and then maybe next-level-after-that-and-then-after-that kind of thing. I hope the request isn't too vague. I've found myself amassing a library that just seems to create more questions and than it answers, and finally realized I haven't exactly created a foundation and method for success. I realize that this question may have been asked and answered before, but that's as much a testament to how much there is to be found here. Any advice would be massively appreciated. Ted-thanks for your patience in getting me set up. Funny story: After I got my subscription up to RDSS up and running, I took a working vacation down to Gulf Stream Park. Vaguely understanding what all the pretty colors in the program meant, I still won money for the weekend. In my ignorance of what it all actually meant, that's not necessarily a good thing. But, as not-good things go, it was pretty good. At this point, I'm in for a penny, in for a pound. Any help that can be given would be massively appreciated.

04-25-2016, 03:08 AM	#2
poweshow AlwNW2X Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Lafayette, CA Posts: 23	I'm largely in the same boat as you so take what I say with a grain of salt, I'll just simply list where I'm at... I've read Modern Pace Handicapping, I'm pretty close to done with Pace Makes The Race and I've created my own excel spread sheet that enables me to enter fractional times and beaten lengths to obtain feet per second calculations, EPR/LPR and TPR (CPR?) ratings along with rankings for all of the aforementioned. I'm trying to extract as much information from the texts and the manuals that I can to create my own ratings and database (some 2,000 races now!) to better understand the numbers that go into RDSS. I have yet to purchase RDSS, but am doing everything I can to understand the program before I purchase it and I'm certainty going to purchase it once I feel I have the knowledge to get the very most from the program. Is this the correct and most efficient way to do this? Probably not. But it's where I've begun my journey to hopefully, one day, become as successful as the others on this website. In regards to the OP, I too am interested in some sort of curriculum to aid in my growth. As of now I'm in the manuals, but I have no real idea where the best place is to begin and it's quite overwhelming the sheer amount of data there is to go over. I'll be taking the guidance of anybody that has something to offer.

04-25-2016, 11:10 AM	#3
w42hit AlwNW1X Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4	-show Thanks for that. I'm also interested in additional ideas for organization, and for some reason I just haven't set up a spreadsheet, so thanks for the reminder. Fortunately I started out with 'Pace Makes...'. I think if I'd started with Brohamer I might have been tempted to give up. Best of luck to the freshmen, eh?

04-25-2016, 01:58 PM	#4
mowens33 Grade 1 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: CAMBRIDGE,MA Posts: 1,035	W42hit, I cut my horse racing teeth on this website, I did have a handicapping background but that was dog racing (which I still indulge in, were class rules and great rebates) so in my opinion you have come to the right place. I have read everything under the sun, but I think poweshow is correct that if you haven’t read Modern Pace Handicapping by Tom Brohamerr then you should. In my opinion I think understanding ESP progression, energy distribution, compound factors, and the race within a race and understanding what are the key factors for winner/place at the track you are handicapping. This will help a lot when making your final selection from your contenders list. Other key reads: Pace Makes the Race by Tom Hamilton The Match Up by Jim “The Hat” Bradshaw – Match Up Forum Handicappers Condition Book by James Quinn Thoroughbred Cycles by Mark Cramer Ted’s recommendation on the follow-up 70 thru 88, and the Yellow manual The reason I mention the above is that even though RDSS is a Great program (it will do all your calculations) sorting out the contenders (pace line is key) it is not a magic bullet. I have learned a lot from the members of Pace and Cap and as long I am still in this game I will keep coming back. So just from this post alone you are on the right track! Mike

04-25-2016, 04:13 PM	#5
Mitch44 Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: The Villages, Fl. Posts: 3,705	mowens33 has given you guys some great reference material. This a discipline that isn't easily learned or that short cuts can be taken, to be successful not only requires reading but also practice and discipline in money management. Not an impossible task but one that at numerous times will seem so. Your limitation is controlled solely by yourself. Good luck, Mitch44

04-25-2016, 04:42 PM	#6
DaveEdwards Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: England Posts: 489	Not reading now, but check out the audio section. If as I do you spend a certain amount of time driving to & from work, it's an easy way to take information in without much effort. I listen for two hours everyday, same stuff over & over. Unless of course I'm in the mood for The Who!!

04-25-2016, 10:58 PM	#7
w42hit AlwNW1X Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4	Mowens33- Got three of those titles, and thanks so much for the others. i feel like a kindergartner being groomed for an education in physics. Man, I'll tell you what. Even if one didn't know the story of Doc Sartin, it only takes reading a few threads to know this thing started out as a support group.

04-25-2016, 11:14 PM	#8
w42hit AlwNW1X Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4	DaveEdwards- That...is...AWESOME. I'm in my car hours per week, and very much an audio learner. You may have, with a few keystrokes, single-handedly amplified my education. INFINITE thank you's!

04-30-2016, 09:42 PM	#9
MikeB Grade 1 Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 154	There are a number of different approaches to using RDSS, and you have to find your own way. I think a big threshold question is whether you are qualitative or quantitative in the way you look at things. If you tend to be more qualitative, which I do, I suggest you focus on the Match Up. In any case, no matter your bias or approach, the prerequisite to any application of RDSS is pace line selection. Start there, learn it, love it, and then start looking at the various ways of applying it.